Motor Learning, Kinesthetic Sense, Mirrors

[jusmoren]

Have you seen Scent of a Woman? With motor learning you can be a blind alcoholic and still dance with a woman.

[sbhikes]

Our gym just got all new equipment. Now you squat facing someone else squatting on the other side. If there ever was a way to get people to look down, that's the way. Makes pressing and deadlifting kind of awkward, though.

[CJ Gotcher]

From Wikipedia: "Motor learning is a change, resulting from practice or a novel experience, in the capability for responding." Although not a scholarly definition, it applies here. The 'change in capability of responding' can be the difference between a 400# squat or a 410# squat. The question is: does the novel experience of having a mirror available when you squat accelerate or slow the process of going from 400-410.

Based on Rip's guidance in SS and my personal experience, it slows it. The reasons are clear:
a) If my head is anatomically neutral, the mirror is either out of my LOS or in my peripheral in 4 of the 5 main lifts (the press being the exception)
b) The cues it provides are received visually and must be translated (the visual is in reverse) and corrected in real time under a heavy load- proprioception is faster and doesn't need translation
c) NSCA/ASCM regulations recommend a mirror be at least 20" off the floor, and most gyms stick to this. Even if you ARE going to use it, that means that the hip crease is often below the mirror at the bottom of the squat, so you can't tell depth.
d) Unless you bend your neck sideways under load (not a good idea), you only see one angle (from directly ahead). The only thing I get out of the front view of a lifter is whether their head position is correct and their knees are pushed out far enough. Depth, back angle, and bar path are hard to see from up front.

Instead of a mirror, I'd recommend using a cell phone camera or a video camera with a 15-second delay on constant play placed above and to the side of the lifter (an incredible tool my work gym back in the States uses).

With salsa, it's different- you're looking for an aesthetic, especially if you perform for an audience like I used to do with Swing. Your eyes are supposed to be up, and the mirror can cue you into things you're forgetting (am I open to the audience, is my foot angle correct, am I smiling?). It also shows you what the audience sees. Squats are not salsa. (Standby for the study that demonstrates mirrors improve dance performance... and the subsequent M&F article suggesting mirrors are 'proven to improve motor coordination in complex movements like the clean')

[Kyle Schuant]

Our gym just got all new equipment. Now you squat facing someone else squatting on the other side. If there ever was a way to get people to look down, that's the way. Makes pressing and deadlifting kind of awkward, though.

My community gym is getting gear like that, too. It's the influence of crossfit, lots of equipment sellers are focusing on them, and community and commercial gyms are trying to cash in on the trend. When people are doing a small group workout they like to look at each-other, camaraderie and all that. Different for our style of training.

[Gpcpa]

Yes I play a musical instrument.

[Gpcpa]

Hi Coach，

So despite all these technical reasons not to train in front of mirrors, it's not a big deal if I do right?

[Mark Rippetoe]

Yes I play a musical instrument.

Did you learn to play using a mirror?

[Gpcpa]

No I didnt learn guitar using a mirror.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Motor learning.

[Gpcpa]

Ok thanks for the music analogy. It does make it easier to understand. The internet's definitions are a bit ambiguous.