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Thread: Nutrition during rehab

  1. #1
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    Default Nutrition during rehab

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    Hi Jordan,

    first of all thank you very much for your time.

    First things first
    Male
    190cm
    110kg
    BF% unknown but not lean by any means. Mid to high 20s would be my guess. Maybe even worse.

    Doing SS since august 2013 but with a lot of resets due to injurys. Basically spinning wheels most of the time.

    I dislocated my kneecap 2.5 weeks ago and didn't do any training for 2 weeks. Now i'm back to training, but with very very light weights, at least for the lower body movements (http://startingstrength.com/resource...ad.php?t=52556 if you or anyone else wants to read more about that).

    How should i approach my nutrition in this situation?

  2. #2
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    Well it sounds like you've had some issues with your nutrition for a long time now, given your body composition. I'd probably use this time to focus on improving food quality and getting 200g of protein a day split over 3-5 meals that are composed of single ingredient foods. I wouldn't overtly worry about calories outside of not trying to lose tons of weight quickly. Rather, slow and gradual reductions in body fat with concomitant improvements in behaviors related to eating would be my first choice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordan Feigenbaum View Post
    Well it sounds like you've had some issues with your nutrition for a long time now, given your body composition. I'd probably use this time to focus on improving food quality and getting 200g of protein a day split over 3-5 meals that are composed of single ingredient foods. I wouldn't overtly worry about calories outside of not trying to lose tons of weight quickly. Rather, slow and gradual reductions in body fat with concomitant improvements in behaviors related to eating would be my first choice.
    Thank you,

    what do you think which bodyweight should i aim for roughly? And in which time frame?

    Just to put things into perspective:
    I did track my macros but i was spinning wheels all the time. Got fat on 3500 kcals, couldn't recover properly on 3000kcal.
    I always get at least 200g of protein a day.
    But i have to admit that i sometimes have had a few days / weeks without tracking and eating stupid shit like pizza and stuff like that..

  4. #4
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    I think if you can notice a problem with recovery with a 500kCal difference then there's something else going on....it really shouldn't be that big a deal unless the tracking was wrong (you'd know if you all of a sudden started losing tons of weight).

    At 6'2, 220-250 is not out of the equation, with the lighter BW being achievable first and 250 being like a lifetime kind of goal (at <20% BF). You'd be strongest around 275, however. All depends on goals, wants, etc.

    Pizza binges are fun, but they're even more fun when you can fit it into your daily nutritional goals so you're never "cheating". It's like getting a hall pass from your wife everyday.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordan Feigenbaum View Post
    I think if you can notice a problem with recovery with a 500kCal difference then there's something else going on....it really shouldn't be that big a deal unless the tracking was wrong (you'd know if you all of a sudden started losing tons of weight).

    At 6'2, 220-250 is not out of the equation, with the lighter BW being achievable first and 250 being like a lifetime kind of goal (at <20% BF). You'd be strongest around 275, however. All depends on goals, wants, etc.

    Pizza binges are fun, but they're even more fun when you can fit it into your daily nutritional goals so you're never "cheating". It's like getting a hall pass from your wife everyday.
    Thank you for your answer.
    How are pizza binges even possible to track, yet even to fit into daily goals?
    My goals are general strength while looking like i actually lift. No specific athletic goals whatsoever at the moment.
    I will try to cut down to around 100kg now and reassess from there. I will beginn with around 3200kcal (the lower end of you recomp recommendation in "To Be A Beast") and see what happens.
    One more question though:
    When i hit the wall again on the upper body lifts (from experience this will happen pretty soon, at around 50kg on the press and at around 80kg on the bench) should i increase the kcals to keep things moving or should i just repeat the weights as long as im on that cut?

    One more thing that might matter: sleep might also be an issue for me since we have a newborn at home, so i dont always get the 7 or more hours of sleep, specially on training days since i train in the morning (so i can spend the evening with my family). But i try my best to get as much sleep as possible.

    Thanks again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kraspor View Post
    How are pizza binges even possible to track, yet even to fit into daily goals?
    It's kind of a tongue in cheek comment, given my views on food reward and psychology's role on eating habits. However, imagine you have 250/500/100 to eat everyday. You could probably eat a few slices of pizza and fit them in, right? No you probably won't find a way to have a true "I'm gonna eat the whole pizza" binge, unfortunately.

    My goals are general strength while looking like i actually lift. No specific athletic goals whatsoever at the moment.
    Yea I think body fat is the biggest issue here. Being higher than ~20% for people under 240-ish tends to make someone just look soft rather than thick/strong/trained. This gets progressively better with a bit of leaning out or more muscle added to the equation. These numbers are for illustrative purposes only- I thought about it for around 5 minutes for typing it and they reflect my experience ATM.


    When i hit the wall again on the upper body lifts (from experience this will happen pretty soon, at around 50kg on the press and at around 80kg on the bench) should i increase the kcals to keep things moving or should i just repeat the weights as long as im on that cut?
    If you're stalling that early, I think there's something else besides calories that are causing your recovery issues. Who do you train with?

    One more thing that might matter: sleep might also be an issue for me since we have a newborn at home, so i don't always get the 7 or more hours of sleep, specially on training days since i train in the morning (so i can spend the evening with my family). But i try my best to get as much sleep as possible.
    While sleep is obviously important and I sympathize with not getting enough of it, it really sounds like a mental/motivational thing to me. At 110kg, I'd expect you to easily go past 80kg x 5 x 3 on the bench and 50kg on the press unless there are serious form, spotter, equipment, or motivational issues. That said, there is certainly a spectrum of natural endowment for strength training. One could make the argument that my experience has biased me into how I interpret other people's results. I do not agree with this, given that even after 2 years of "exercise" in high school I could only bench 60kg and do a single chin up even when highly motivated (though misguided). So, was it the programming, my nutrition, my sleep, or some other x factor that I can patent a proprietary solution to? The answer is likely all of the above and none of the above at the same time. Honestly, I don't know what it was. Given your situation, I think if nothing stands out to you then the best course of action is to arrange your training in such a way where you don't miss reps (perhaps stretching out the progression) and you're intelligently adding weight to the bar in some systematic way (every 2nd or 3rd session, for instance). Given your weight, the best course of action is to lose somewhere between 5-10kg over the next 6 months while you train. I think it should level off the more robust your training stimulus becomes, but we need you firmly in the upper teens/lower 20's IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordan Feigenbaum View Post
    It's kind of a tongue in cheek comment, given my views on food reward and psychology's role on eating habits. However, imagine you have 250/500/100 to eat everyday. You could probably eat a few slices of pizza and fit them in, right? No you probably won't find a way to have a true "I'm gonna eat the whole pizza" binge, unfortunately.
    I understood that, my comment wasnt really serious. Sorry i didn't make myself clear enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jordan Feigenbaum View Post
    If you're stalling that early, I think there's something else besides calories that are causing your recovery issues. Who do you train with?
    I train by myself inside a rack (for safety reasons). Its not the best rack in the world but the only rack i have available (at least for benching, i can switch racks for squatting and pressing).

    Quote Originally Posted by Jordan Feigenbaum View Post
    While sleep is obviously important and I sympathize with not getting enough of it, it really sounds like a mental/motivational thing to me. At 110kg, I'd expect you to easily go past 80kg x 5 x 3 on the bench and 50kg on the press unless there are serious form, spotter, equipment, or motivational issues. That said, there is certainly a spectrum of natural endowment for strength training. One could make the argument that my experience has biased me into how I interpret other people's results. I do not agree with this, given that even after 2 years of "exercise" in high school I could only bench 60kg and do a single chin up even when highly motivated (though misguided). So, was it the programming, my nutrition, my sleep, or some other x factor that I can patent a proprietary solution to? The answer is likely all of the above and none of the above at the same time. Honestly, I don't know what it was. Given your situation, I think if nothing stands out to you then the best course of action is to arrange your training in such a way where you don't miss reps (perhaps stretching out the progression) and you're intelligently adding weight to the bar in some systematic way (every 2nd or 3rd session, for instance). Given your weight, the best course of action is to lose somewhere between 5-10kg over the next 6 months while you train. I think it should level off the more robust your training stimulus becomes, but we need you firmly in the upper teens/lower 20's IMO.
    I would say im quite motivated, I can't rule that out though. But I would rather go with the "mental" thing. I have had a lot of shoulder issues from benching (very painful impingement syndrome) in the past which are slowly getting better (thanks to the "new" press chapter in SSBBT3, i finally understood the shrug part and got the press form better). I still sometimes have shoulder pain while / after benching. But its a lot better now than before.

    I totally understand that chin up part. My chins are stalling since forever at 4/3/3. Sometimes i even question if they make sense in my situation. But i like them and i think they are important.

    I might take some pictures and let someone who is more experienced estimate my bf%, maybe im totally off. I don't know. But that i'm carrying <20% is for sure. So i don't know if that makes any difference. Im already down to ~108kg.

    Thank you again for your time Jordan, helped a lot.

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    Forgot to ask: which calories / macros should i start with in your opinion?

  9. #9
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    You went from "mid to high 20's" bodyfat to "<20%" in about a week? Impressive ;-)

    Also, I don't know what macros you should be on because I don't know what you're eating now and how that's affecting your weight.

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