Protein spacing

[sbhikes]

I was reading on your blog that you suggest 3-5 hours between protein intake because there's a "refractory period" for muscle protein synthesis.

What I do is get up and make a protein shake that has instant coffee in it. Once it wakes me up, I go take a shower, get dressed and then make breakfast. Is this half hour between protein consumption small enough that it doesn't matter? Or am I throwing my money down the drain?

[Jordan Feigenbaum]

Do you want the biochemistry answer or the practical answer?

[tnumrych]

Do you want the biochemistry answer or the practical answer?

Biochemistry.

[sirostac]

Do you want the biochemistry answer or the practical answer?

Get Both?

[Toot]

Both please

I have had the same question for quite some time now and always felt there would be two answers...

[sbhikes]

The practical answer is fine. And I forgot to mention that sometimes I drink the shake, immediately go do my overhead presses, then take the shower etc before breakfast.

[freddie75104]

I know its not my question but I would like to know what you have to say about both please.

[Jordan Feigenbaum]

Biochemistry answer:

If, after waking, a person consumes a complete protein source rich in leucine that is rapidly absorbed and produces a sustained elevation in amino acids in the blood> he or she will drive MPS to near maximum. If he or she were to eat again in 30 minutes, one of two outcomes are likely, depending on the individual's physiology> outcome 1: the person's 2nd meal and 1st meal sum together to drive one MPS spike and are seen as one meal. Given the fact that many feedings occur over the course of an hour and postprandial amino acid elevation that corresponds to the MPS peak is about 90 minutes, my money is on this is what is happening unless the 2nd meal is very slowly absorbed, for whatever reason.

Or

Outcome 2: Protein synthesis is driven to a near maximum with the leucine rich meal occurring after an overnight fast. A meal taken in 30-40min later after the amino acids are already in the blood stream and rising will still peak at 90 min after the shake, drive MPS and the 2nd meal's nutrients do not add to this, but rather delay the recovery of amino acid sensitivity for another MPS spike because of the sustained elevation in plasma amino acids that are not supraphysiological enough (high enough) and fast enough (like bcaas would be) to drive another bout of MPS. So the refractory period persists for 3hrs after the 2nd meal.

What's more likely, IMO, is this: meal one primes the system by breaking the fast and meal 2 is additive. I say this because of the time course between meals 1 and 2 are relatively short, meal 1 is very small, and because the person was previously fasted there aren't a lot of essential amino acids floating around outside the dietary derived scoop of whey. Similarly, given the age of sbhikes (not old by any stretch), we know that more leucine is mo' betta for her MPS response (along with her being female). So I'm more apt to think that it's just viewed as one big meal.

But wait, there's more.....she does presses after the whey but before the meal....the plot thickens.

Suboptimal press training conditions notwithstanding, physical activity tends to prime mTOR to respond to leucine rich amino acids especially when it's resistance training. So meal 1 occurs, MPS would be peaking about 90 min later- then there's training- then 30-45 after the shake she eats. So we're getting an influx of protein that's hitting the blood stream about 1/2 way through the presses and not causing MPS, but rather just contributing amino acids to making glucose (gluconeogenesis) and intermediates of the Kreb's cycle to make pyruvate (and more ATP). Then, after the resistance training induced protein sensitization (relatively)- she gets a meal. So more likely the initial shake and coffee yields energy for the workout but no MPS and meal 2 is the sole MPS driver in this scenario.

Practical answer: It doesn't matter. While eating every 2 hrs or constantly sipping on amino acids/protein is probably not a good idea from an optimal standpoint- one meal a day that's a little queer is not going to make or break your gainzZz. If it were me, I'd do BCAAs (10g) and caffeine pre workout, press, then eat breakfast. Less calories for the same effect ;-)

[sbhikes]

Thank you for the detailed answer. I was hoping it would be not a problem. And although my pressing conditions might not be optimal, what is optimal is that I'm using my own equipment so I can effectively microload at very small levels. Pressing under the moon before dawn is kinda awesome, too.

[BarryF]

Biochemistry answer:

If, after waking, a person consumes a complete protein source rich in leucine that is rapidly absorbed and produces a sustained elevation in amino acids in the blood> he or she will drive MPS to near maximum.

Jordan, this sentence makes it sound as though someone performing novice linear progression and purposefully gaining weight would benefit greatly from a protein shake alongside breakfast in order to help maximize muscle growth. Is this a reasonable assumption and/or worth considering?