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Thread: Reconciling Crossfit with Starting Strength

  1. #11
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    • starting strength seminar april 2024
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike C View Post
    I get this in theory, it's the specifics of the bolded that I'm unsure about. How do you do that and still Crossfit?
    You don't. But new members don't know that.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike C View Post

    But a healthy portion of SS gyms are. My guess is you'd have to do a lot of 1-on-1 personal training to pay the bills without crossfit? Is there another effective model?
    Of course. I've been doing it since 2007.

    I don't do Crossfit, and I don't do large group training of any kind. I do mostly semi-private training (groups of 2-4) with a little bit of 1 on 1. I charge for semi-private what most trainers in my area charge for privates. Do I make as much as a big Crossfit box with 200+ members? Probably not. But I do much better than pay the bills. The downside to what I do is that it excludes most of the population. The crossfits in my area are between $85-150ish a month. I'm average around $400-600/month.

  3. #13
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    I visited a powerlifting gym in El Segundo that a friend of mine belongs to. The whole gym is oriented toward powerlifting meets and training people for them. There are always coaches there working with you, setting your programming, training you for the next meet. I have no idea how financially feasible something like this is. The coaches there said they don't make much money. But this is such a rare thing to find and I'm pretty sure there would be a demand for it in some places. I know a lot of people make do with their globo and university gyms and don't want to pay cross-fit prices just for access to decent equipment. But good equipment along with preparation for actual contests and the sense of teamwork that this provides might be a real draw for some people.

  4. #14
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    1. New member signs up for CrossFit

    2. Limited progress occurs due to the "novice effect"

    3. Frustration sets in, SSC suggests actual strength programming

    4. Member follows strength program, but still plays on the monkey bars/throws the dinosaur eggs around the gym a couple times a week

    I guess it's not the worst bait-and-switch scheme out there.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike C View Post
    . My question is how do these gyms reconcile "constantly varied, high intensity, functional movements" with "physical activity performed for the purpose of satisfying a long-term performance goal" via logical and methodical planning.
    How frequently does a movement pattern need to be programmed so that the training falls on the right side of this divide? Probably depends on the complexity of the movement and the experience of the trainee. Some elite powerlifters deadlift only every other week.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike C View Post
    My guess is you'd have to do a lot of 1-on-1 personal training to pay the bills without crossfit? Is there another effective model?
    Yes. Basically it's small group training - but where not everyone is doing the same thing at once.

    Around here, gyms cost the members about
    • $10pw if it's just equipment rental with no service,
    • $20pw if they offer individualised routines for the person to do on their own, plus group classes (Zumba, BodyPump, yoga, etc)
    • $50pw for crossfit
    • $70-180pw for one-on-one personal training


    A black iron gym around here charges $20pw for people to just come in and use the equipment and get some occasional advice, and $40pw if they join the powerlifting club, where they all get routines and have a coach floating around all the time offering advice.

    In my garage gym I've gone for this model, except it's small so everyone is in the lifting club, later if we're bigger we can have the general members who do their own thing.

    They come along, start up, I teach them to squat, press and pull at whatever level they are. I give them a routine to follow for 6 weeks, and they write their workouts in their journals. They come in at times they've made an appointment for, there'll be 3-4 of them altogether. Later when we expand to the full garage there'll be 5-6. I wander around and coach them, watching their work sets, correcting them where necessary, and telling them what weight to use next time. And the more experienced lifters help the newbies.

    This works pretty well. Few people need one-on-one for an hour 2-3 times a week. If nothing else, while you're resting between sets I can coach your buddy.

    And every Sunday or public holiday in the warmer months, we have barbeque.

    Just think of it as like one of the SS seminars. There everyone is learning the stuff for the first time, so they have up to 6 coaches for 25 people. You need 1 coach for 3-6 people when the people are new, but once they've got the hang of things you can have 1 for 8-12 - provided they're all keeping their own journals, etc.

    Allow 60-90 minutes 2-3 times a week for each group of 8-12, do a few of those sessions a day 3-6 days a week, and the trainer/coach doesn't have to charge much to make a decent living. I have 12 clients which is only $24,000, but I only started this in July, you need a year or two for most small businesses to take off. And our meat shopping is now tax deductible.

    There are lots of ways to give out our services. Not everyone will want to do it the way we're doing it at my place, or a black iron gym. But we don't all have to do it the same way. You don't have to reconcile anything with anything, you can make and choose your own way.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike C View Post
    This is how I feel, but at the same time I believe group cross training (what Crossfit can and should be) is perfectly fine. It's the whole "constant variation" thing that disturbs me.
    No. Group cross training CAN'T be fine. The only perspective from which it is fine is the business perspective (300 clients paying $175-$225 month in a low-overhead space...the numbers are beautiful). Honestly, a flywheel studio with a bunch of squat racks and pullup bars is probably a more honest approach from an ex phys perspective.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sean Herbison View Post
    I understand where you're coming from, but I don't think it's quite the same. If you're actively telling people Crossfit is the better way to go, the analogy would be closer. But you're simply providing people with what they ask for, while simultaneously offering a better alternative. If they choose the sub-optimal route, it's still better than most of what's out there.
    I think it is the same. The self-proclaimed "evidence-based" PT who offers reikei stone therapy as a service for certain demographic (knowing it doesn't work) is a shithead...even if he/she is totally transparent about reiki's efficacy.

    Also, in practice, simultaneously offering exceptional programming side-by-side with the "other stuff" sends confusing signals to clients. How the fuck do they know if they're getting the subject matter expert and coach to record-holders or the business opportunist?

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by dpg View Post
    How frequently does a movement pattern need to be programmed so that the training falls on the right side of this divide? Probably depends on the complexity of the movement and the experience of the trainee. Some elite powerlifters deadlift only every other week.
    You're starting to show your hand. More subtlety.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Hanley View Post
    The self-proclaimed "evidence-based" PT ... even if he/she is totally transparent about reiki's efficacy.
    I think I see what you're saying, but I guess we'll just disagree on this. To me, so long as you're transparent about it, I'm fine with it.

    Basically I would approach it is this:
    Crossfit has the advantages of peer pressure and constant change for the easily bored, but it's not optimal for training. If you're okay with that, go do so. If, on the other hand, you want to make good, continuable progress, let me show you the wonderful world of strength training.

  10. #20
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    starting strength coach development program
    Quote Originally Posted by John Hanley View Post
    No. Group cross training CAN'T be fine. The only perspective from which it is fine is the business perspective (300 clients paying $175-$225 month in a low-overhead space...the numbers are beautiful). Honestly, a flywheel studio with a bunch of squat racks and pullup bars is probably a more honest approach from an ex phys perspective.



    I think it is the same. The self-proclaimed "evidence-based" PT who offers reikei stone therapy as a service for certain demographic (knowing it doesn't work) is a shithead...even if he/she is totally transparent about reiki's efficacy.

    Also, in practice, simultaneously offering exceptional programming side-by-side with the "other stuff" sends confusing signals to clients. How the fuck do they know if they're getting the subject matter expert and coach to record-holders or the business opportunist?
    Unfortunately we don't get to tell the market what the market wants. A big gym cannot ignore market demand if it wants to be a viable business.

    Great interview with the Whole Foods CEO the other day. He's a staunch Vegan who does not believe in meat consumption. Yet whole food sells meat. Why? Because a grocery store that doesn't sell meat is not viable in the market. But they won't sell tobacco. That's a line his company would not cross.

    By the way, I'm not advocating Veganism. I personally think Steak & Copenhagen are a match made in Heaven.

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