starting strength gym
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 26

Thread: Modifying the DL

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    18

    Default

    • starting strength seminar jume 2024
    • starting strength seminar august 2024
    • starting strength seminar october 2024
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    Our man John Hanley is in Seattle. Look him up at startingstrength.org.
    Will do, thanks Rip.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    274

    Default

    Hmm I wanted to post this earlier in the day before your description of the bar getting in front of you but I forgot to click Submit. So down below is my "original" post. But from you saying you can actually get your back into position because you're flexible enough, the real problem is the bar getting away from your legs. So It seems like you're just not pulling the it back into your legs hard enough. Don't forget that your shoulders will be a bit in front of the bar in the setup. That means that your arms are going to be sloped back a little (hope that's the correct term). It's visible in this picture:



    Copyright 2011, The Aasgaard Company. All Rights Reserved.

    When the bar gets off the ground it wants to hang vertically from your arms and thus it gets away from your legs if you don't actively pull it back. As you're saying you can circumvent the problem with the bar getting in front of you by "squatting" the bar it's obvious that you're getting behind the it and pushing your ass down too much. This results in the shoulders being exactly over the bar and thus perfectly vertical arms. But unfortunately this leads to inefficient pulling mechanics. What you have to do is get into the correct position (as you seem to be capable of) and focus on pulling the bar back into your legs to keep it over your mid-foot.

    So I'm not sure the following "original" post will be of much help now since you seem to actually be able to get into a correct setup and it's not the real issue here but there you go nonetheless:

    ======

    I also have rather short arms and thus trouble setting my back and locking it in extension. Sumo deadlifting feels really awkward to me as well, I can't even get my last conventional DL warmup weight off the floor in sumo style. Maybe I just don't use the right mechanics here but I tried it many times by now to no avail.

    What I found that worked for me was to stretch/foamroll/etc. my hamstrings regularly to ensure they have their full range. Now this probably still won't be enough to be able to set your back properly with the normal deadlift setup. So what I do is to take the correct stance, start the valsalva and set my back in the correct position before bending down to grip the bar.

    Now if you bend down while keeping the back locked you'll probably notice just like me that you can't even reach the bar with your hands (Hello T-Rex bro!). So what I do instead is to bend down and reach the bar with momentum while of course keeping the back locked. Once I get a hold of the bar I notice that my hamstring and everything is under a lot of tension (which is a good thing). So right then I just start the lift. Try not to wait too long or you'll run out of breath or your back will start to lose its tension, especially some reps in when fatigue is starting to set it.

    The big downside of this is of course that you'll have to let go of the bar, stand up and do the process all over for each rep. Far from ideal but hey at least you can deadlift with a locked back that way. Well unless your arms are even shorter than mine and you can't reach the bar even with momentum (while keeping a locked back). In that case you're probably out of options other than doing rack pulls or having to get used to the sumo DLs if you plan to compete.
    Last edited by Mark Rippetoe; 11-28-2014 at 01:00 AM. Reason: attribution

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    18

    Default

    What I meant was that my arms are so short that in doing the set up as prescribed in SSBT results in an extremely flat back angle. Because I am flexible in my lower back, I can still get it to set, but the pull comes away from the shins. Doing the lift in bare feet helped some, so the question about raising the bar an inch or so was continuing that line of thought. If I lower my ass enough to get the bar to ride the shins, then I am squatting the bar off the floor.

    And when I say my arms are short, I mean that at full lockout position, the bar is about 1 inch below my belt line. Everyone else I've seen, the bar is below the balls at lockout.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    North Texas
    Posts
    53,688

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Meangreen View Post
    What I meant was that my arms are so short that in doing the set up as prescribed in SSBT results in an extremely flat back angle. Because I am flexible in my lower back, I can still get it to set, but the pull comes away from the shins. Doing the lift in bare feet helped some, so the question about raising the bar an inch or so was continuing that line of thought. If I lower my ass enough to get the bar to ride the shins, then I am squatting the bar off the floor.

    And when I say my arms are short, I mean that at full lockout position, the bar is about 1 inch below my belt line. Everyone else I've seen, the bar is below the balls at lockout.
    Take a picture of your stance angle and post it.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    274

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Meangreen View Post
    What I meant was that my arms are so short that in doing the set up as prescribed in SSBT results in an extremely flat back angle. Because I am flexible in my lower back, I can still get it to set, but the pull comes away from the shins. Doing the lift in bare feet helped some, so the question about raising the bar an inch or so was continuing that line of thought. If I lower my ass enough to get the bar to ride the shins, then I am squatting the bar off the floor.

    And when I say my arms are short, I mean that at full lockout position, the bar is about 1 inch below my belt line. Everyone else I've seen, the bar is below the balls at lockout.
    Mine is also very flat and it's obvious that this will be the case for a guy with short arms. But what does the bar getting away from your shins have to do with a very flat back angle? In a correctly set DL starting position the bar will always tend to get away from your shins. Read my description above again (or better yet the book or the detailed analysis). In order to counter that you have to pull it back against your shins.

    And no don't lower your ass "enough to keep the bar against your shins". If you do that in means that your knees will probably come forward, pushing the bar in front of your mid-foot as well. That way your shoulders will end up pretty much over the bar (instead of slightly in front of it) and therefore indeed the bar won't tend to get away from your body. But other than that you won't be able to lift a heavy weight off the floor like that.

    It seems to me that you're actually getting into the right position with the "extremely flat back angle" as you say and your only real issue is not pulling the bar back into your shins.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by deeprooted View Post
    Mine is also very flat and it's obvious that this will be the case for a guy with short arms. But what does the bar getting away from your shins have to do with a very flat back angle? In a correctly set DL starting position the bar will always tend to get away from your shins. Read my description above again (or better yet the book or the detailed analysis). In order to counter that you have to pull it back against your shins.

    And no don't lower your ass "enough to keep the bar against your shins". If you do that in means that your knees will probably come forward, pushing the bar in front of your mid-foot as well. That way your shoulders will end up pretty much over the bar (instead of slightly in front of it) and therefore indeed the bar won't tend to get away from your body. But other than that you won't be able to lift a heavy weight off the floor like that.

    It seems to me that you're actually getting into the right position with the "extremely flat back angle" as you say and your only real issue is not pulling the bar back into your shins.
    Well, I'm a noob, so I realize I am probably just messing it up. I do have short arms, but so does Andy Bolton. If Andy has less than 500lbs on the bar, his lock out is pretty high also. So obviously I just need some coaching, which I intend to get. I already have a email in to the guy that Rip recommended.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    NSW, Australia
    Posts
    606

    Default

    In addition to not pulling the bar back in towards the body, it could also be that you are trying to break the movement into legs, then back, meaning extending legs then hips by exaggerating some cues a lot of people I've seen use.

  8. #18
    Jsutt Guest

    Default

    Out of curiosity, why do you not want to pull sumo? You mentioned Andy Bolton's short arms, and he pulls (pulled? He still competes doesn't he?) using a narrow sumo stance.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Denver
    Posts
    3,229

    Default

    Andy Bolton certainly does not have short arms. And he's always pulled conventional.


  10. #20
    Jsutt Guest

    Default

    starting strength coach development program
    Ah jeez, I meant Ed Coan, not Andy Bolton. Don't know why I always get them mixed up:



    My question still stands.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •