Ok, so one feels super good before a workout...

[Cody]

It could. And such a discussion would demonstrate conclusively that experience is necessary before such a subjective factor can be applied to one's training. Once a lifter accumulates 4-5 years of training journal data, RPE becomes a valuable parameter. But not for a novice, for obvious reasons.

I strongly agree it is inappropriate for a novice. I also agree that an advanced lifter can apply it as a tool. The gray area in my mind is applying it to an intermediate lifter. There are nice objective observations that can be made (a set was made, or it was missed) with clear ways to cope with outcomes (go up 5 lbs next week, swap from sets of 5 to sets of 3, etc). Clearly, this method works. As Jordan so frequently says, though, is there a more optimal approach?

I have PPST3 (signed, no less), and it, along with SSBT3, has helped me reach a 500 lb squat in less than 2 years, during which time my first child was born. I was a late novice at the time, so I still made solid gains even with the complications that come with a newborn. My second daughter is due in May, and I've just been pondering whether considering subjective measures, like Rate of Perceived Exertion, is worthwhile to optimize my training during an extended period of subpar recovery.

[HandPlaneSteve]

I'm guilty of doing extra work. I'll AMRAP the last set, or do one, two, or three heavier singles after the prescribed work sets. Gotta take advantage of those Christmas days in the gym, where everything's a gimmee.

Hindsight being what it is, it makes extracting good data from your log a little more difficult, as I'm finding today.

[Mark E. Hurling]

Feeling good and feeling bad? Go in and do your work anyway.

I admit to being guilty of feeling bad keeping me out of the gym. But I felt blah and unmotivated today and had to self-talk myself into lifting. It went better than expected with more reps in the final top set than I thought was possible.

Momentary perception is not reality. You can make, remake or best of all overcome your perceived reality. But you have to show up to do it.

[Kyle Schuant]

And such a discussion would demonstrate conclusively that experience is necessary before such a subjective factor can be applied to one's training. Once a lifter accumulates 4-5 years of training journal data, RPE becomes a valuable parameter. But not for a novice, for obvious reasons.

One of the other guys Hassan at the December seminar had been using RPE as a novice. He said, "The problem was, after 185 everything felt like a 9." He decided to just keep adding weight to the bar anyway. I think he was up to 305 for his 5s, at 165. Something like that.

[Frayedknot]

I strongly agree it is inappropriate for a novice. I also agree that an advanced lifter can apply it as a tool. The gray area in my mind is applying it to an intermediate lifter. There are nice objective observations that can be made (a set was made, or it was missed) with clear ways to cope with outcomes (go up 5 lbs next week, swap from sets of 5 to sets of 3, etc). Clearly, this method works. As Jordan so frequently says, though, is there a more optimal approach?

I have PPST3 (signed, no less), and it, along with SSBT3, has helped me reach a 500 lb squat in less than 2 years, during which time my first child was born. I was a late novice at the time, so I still made solid gains even with the complications that come with a newborn. My second daughter is due in May, and I've just been pondering whether considering subjective measures, like Rate of Perceived Exertion, is worthwhile to optimize my training during an extended period of subpar recovery.

RPE in it's purest form is a great tool for advanced lifters, as you say. However, I wouldn't throw it totally out for an intermediate. 5/3/1 utilizes a similar process of either AMRAP last set or additional work...based on how you feel for the day. The important thing for an intermediate using 5/3/1 is that the lifts are still programmed. As long as you hit the numbers you're good. Obviously this is oversimplifying 5/3/1, but you get the idea.

If a novice is feeling randy enough to do extra sets, he ain't doing the program.

[ChessGuy]

Don't know what RPE is.....

A couple of months ago I went to the gym and during my deadlift warmups I felt super strong. 135-185-225-275 felt incredibly easy. My best DL before that was 1x5 285Lbs.

That night, after feeling how easy 275 felt, I loaded up to an even 300lbs, which was one of my intermediate goals. The first 4 reps were not bad. The last one was a struggle, but I managed.

Unfortunately, a week and a half later, I came down with a nasty flu and am just starting to fully recover......

I understand what you guys say about 'feelings', though.

I strongly agree it is inappropriate for a novice. I also agree that an advanced lifter can apply it as a tool. The gray area in my mind is applying it to an intermediate lifter. There are nice objective observations that can be made (a set was made, or it was missed) with clear ways to cope with outcomes (go up 5 lbs next week, swap from sets of 5 to sets of 3, etc). Clearly, this method works. As Jordan so frequently says, though, is there a more optimal approach?

I have PPST3 (signed, no less), and it, along with SSBT3, has helped me reach a 500 lb squat in less than 2 years, during which time my first child was born. I was a late novice at the time, so I still made solid gains even with the complications that come with a newborn. My second daughter is due in May, and I've just been pondering whether considering subjective measures, like Rate of Perceived Exertion, is worthwhile to optimize my training during an extended period of subpar recovery.

That's exactly my problem. My copy of SSBT3 isn't signed. ...

[Charlie Davies]

I record RPE in my intermediate log just for fun. My top worksets always feel like an 8.5 or 9, then the next week are still 8.5 or 9 at a higher weight. Week after week. I conclude that I am not an advanced enough trainee to use an RPE-based training program.

Also, +1 to Sully's "how you feel is a lie". My best squat PR was set on a session I started out of duty, fully expecting to fail.

[MPhelps]

Anecdotally, when I feel like crap and don't want to work, my sets go up just fine; maybe a bit slower than usual. But I take it slow. Not doing too many warmups, not all fidgety, not wanting to do mor reps. Other days, I'll be super pumped and everything goes up fast and I take short breaks. Usually what happens is I'll burn that energy out before the end of my workout. Or two or three days later I'll feel a tweak in my back because I went too hard.

[Nermin]

The doctor's picture says all the words you need.

[Steve Hill]

My observation based on my personal training (both as a WL as well as a competitive cyclist) as well as my coaching:

- The biggest mistake beginners, many intermediates, some advanced athletes and occasionally elites make is to attempt to correlate subjective feeling with potential athletic performance. Your body is a sack of shit and it will LIE to you.

- Every single WR I set on the bike was done when I felt bad. Not horrible, but not great or even good, either. Once I got over (mentally) the false dichotomy of "feel bad = bad performance" and started demanding my body to perform when *I* required it, I became a vastly better athlete. Many of the elite-r guys I coach report the same.

- That being said, the one rule of thumb I always used was to do extra and harder warm-up when I felt tired / stiff / sore / bad. An extra warm-up set of squats is not going to hurt the novice or even an intermediate on volume day. It just WON'T.

- Progress is made through regular accumulation of incremental gains. Fucking with that equation will fuck with progress. For instance, going a little heavier or one extra set when feeling "good" can result in overreaching in some athletes depending on the PLAN and stage of advancement, as well as the particular workout that that day entails.