starting strength gym
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 22

Thread: Why your doctor might not be the best nutritional resource

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    735

    Default Why your doctor might not be the best nutritional resource

    • starting strength seminar jume 2024
    • starting strength seminar august 2024
    • starting strength seminar october 2024
    I thought you might find this article interesting. Article

    I hoped that they author might make the same point about exercise and training. I am looking forward to your book. Hope it comes out soon.

    Thanks for all the free advice on the forums. I look forward to repaying you in a small way by buying your book.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    10,199

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Malpeg View Post
    I thought you might find this article interesting. Article

    I hoped that they author might make the same point about exercise and training. I am looking forward to your book. Hope it comes out soon.

    Thanks for all the free advice on the forums. I look forward to repaying you in a small way by buying your book.
    I am happy Mr. Talens wrote this- even though I only half agree with him. I do agree that in general, physicians are not very good at counseling someone on making what most well trained coaches/RD's/etc would consider "useful" dietary changes. I define "good" as represented by the ever-changing evidence based medicine combined with clinical experience, e.g. "evidence based behavioral practice". Additionally, the motivational interviewing skills could likely be improved for a large percentage of primary care physicians. Finally, the way most primary care practices are setup in such a way that it precludes physicians from being good resources for patients on exercise or nutrition due to the "fee for service" model and the need to see a lot of patients per day who are NOT their for dietary or exercise counseling primarily?

    I would argue that a very real problem is that the importance of lifestyle changes, e.g. exercise, nutrition, sleep quality and quantity, and interpersonal relationship health, are neither heavily emphasized nor adequately rewarded in most medical practices and educations unless the practicioner has self-educated and/or personally/professionally experienced benefits from optimizing these avenues in themselves or in their patients. Similarly, for a clinician who wishes to have a more substantial fund of knowledge and more treatment recommendations for, say, nutrition- the "cost" is very high in that a lot of research needs to be done on their own time to be able to adequately know the current clinical landscape with respect to nutrition, while keeping track of emergent research and treatment options.

    Let's use hypertension (high blood pressure) for an example here. Most physicians have watched the treatment recommendations and guidelines change over the time they've been learning and practicing medicine. They've changed significantly in the past decade, such that if a person comes in and has met all the criteria for hypertension- the treatment recommendations will get a once-over by a physician before initiating the current evidence-based treatment unless the physician treats this issue so often that he or she is very familiar with the current recommendations and any update to those recommendations automatically gets added to their fund of knowledge. Contrast that with nutritional recommendations for a particular patient population. Not only are there NO CURRENT EVIDENCE BASED recommendations, more or less, but there does not exist any sort of unified resource for the primary care doc to reference to often to keep them in the loop for emerging research, treatment options, etc. So what's the best step in rectifying this situation? More pre clinical education about nutritional principles? Maybe. How about more clinical experience with trained nutritional professionals (e.g. nutritionists and RD's)? Maybe. The answer is complex, certainly, and I think indicting physicians as no-nothings about nutrition and exercise, while likely not the goal of Mr. Talens' post, is both unfair and untrue. I think a lack of evidence based recommendations in an easily accessible- both in physical and a cerebral sense- is likely a bigger problem. So I guess we need a Barbell Medicine Treatment Algorithm for exercise and diet, eh?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,573

    Default

    I'd second the reimbursement element. We don't get paid for nutritional counseling outside of niche and concierge medicine. And furthermore, how much "educating" about diet do you think we could do in 10-15 minutes? Think how many countless hours it took the average person here on this board to learn how to just squat, much less dial in their diet. Society does not want their doctors to know about nutrition because they are not rewarded for it. They'd rather pay Jimmy, the 20 year old personal trainer at their globo gym.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    10,199

    Default

    Concierge medicine....mmmmmmm.....

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    133

    Default

    As for a physicians own knowledge about nutrition and exercise, maybe the ACGME should create a new fellowship called "Barbell Medicine". A 3 year fellowship after Internal Med residency. Must have SSC certification to apply.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    201

    Default

    In addition to the payment model, doctors face the reality that many (most?) patients don't want to hear about lifestyle changes. They want a pill or something.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    10,199

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rmahmad View Post
    As for a physicians own knowledge about nutrition and exercise, maybe the ACGME should create a new fellowship called "Barbell Medicine". A 3 year fellowship after Internal Med residency. Must have SSC certification to apply.
    Oh now we're talking..... I like where your head is at. BRB, creating fellowship during residency!

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbecue View Post
    In addition to the payment model, doctors face the reality that many (most?) patients don't want to hear about lifestyle changes. They want a pill or something.
    I think we're not giving the patient enough credit here. I do agree that there's likely a large amount of unmotivated folks for whom no amount of counseling would work, but the fact is that studies continue to show that <12% of practicing physicians actually know the current exercise recommendations for adults in the US, <50% actually counsel their patients to exercise period, and <20% use any motivational interviewing techniques related to diet or exercise with their patients. This may be due to a perceived "non motivated patient" or, according to reports from actual physicians- a lack of time/knowledge/reimbursement for this work. Still, the number needed to treat (NNT) for exercise to prevent a primary morbidity in adults >55 is estimated to be 1 in 15. To prevent a fall, 1 in 11. For depression, 1 in 6 (or 9 depending who you read). For cardiac failure post heart attack, 1 in 5. Contrast that with the NNT for the Mediterranean Diet in prevention of mortality, which is 1 in 30 and is VERY COMMONLY RECOMMENDED in practice, and you can see my frustration with the current amount of counseling on exercise that goes on the primary care setting.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    174

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jordan Feigenbaum View Post
    Oh now we're talking..... I like where your head is at. BRB, creating fellowship during residency!



    I think we're not giving the patient enough credit here. I do agree that there's likely a large amount of unmotivated folks for whom no amount of counseling would work, but the fact is that studies continue to show that <12% of practicing physicians actually know the current exercise recommendations for adults in the US, <50% actually counsel their patients to exercise period, and <20% use any motivational interviewing techniques related to diet or exercise with their patients. This may be due to a perceived "non motivated patient" or, according to reports from actual physicians- a lack of time/knowledge/reimbursement for this work. Still, the number needed to treat (NNT) for exercise to prevent a primary morbidity in adults >55 is estimated to be 1 in 15. To prevent a fall, 1 in 11. For depression, 1 in 6 (or 9 depending who you read). For cardiac failure post heart attack, 1 in 5. Contrast that with the NNT for the Mediterranean Diet in prevention of mortality, which is 1 in 30 and is VERY COMMONLY RECOMMENDED in practice, and you can see my frustration with the current amount of counseling on exercise that goes on the primary care setting.
    Do you mean that one in 6 (or 1 in 9) people with depression respond to exercise to improve their outlook?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    10,199

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluntschli View Post
    Do you mean that one in 6 (or 1 in 9) people with depression respond to exercise to improve their outlook?
    I mean that if you take 6-9 people who are depressed and get them all to exercise, 1 will see a large improvement in their clinical depression on average. That number needed to treat is very good when taken into context that the NNT for SSRI's is ~7-8 and are WIDELY prescribed and NOT without possible harmful side effects, e.g. the number needed to harm for SSRI's in depression is 20-90 depending on the study and the drug.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,573

    Default

    starting strength coach development program
    Quote Originally Posted by Jordan Feigenbaum View Post
    I mean that if you take 6-9 people who are depressed and get them all to exercise, 1 will see a large improvement in their clinical depression on average. That number needed to treat is very good when taken into context that the NNT for SSRI's is ~7-8 and are WIDELY prescribed and NOT without possible harmful side effects, e.g. the number needed to harm for SSRI's in depression is 20-90 depending on the study and the drug.
    And you'd have to qualify the severity of the depression. The NNT for severe depression is going to be higher for exercise than for mild/moderate. Exercise isn't going to profoundly impact suicidality when compared to lithium.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •