Rip's New Article on T-Nation: Steroids

[Bryan Dobson]

As a life time drug free guy who has done neither of the following, and Living a state where recreational marijuana use is legal, I find it preposterous that steroids are so maligned when they have many therapeutic and practical uses for those so inclined. The hypocrisy is stunning.

Will read the article later from home.

[MBasic]

The issue isn't only money, but time and energy.

Dan John tells a story of how he squatted 400lbs, and threw the discus 190ft. Over a couple of years he worked hard to get his squat up to 600lbs, and threw the discus... 186ft.

Now, being stronger didn't make him throw less far. It's simply that each hour spent in the gym was an hour less spent throwing the discus. Since the aim is to throw the discus as far as possible, you have to decide which time spent is going to give you the most increase. Obviously if you do not squat at all as a young (teenaged) athlete, getting it to even 200lbs will make you throw further. But evidently the time spent going from 400 to 600lbs was not well-spent for Dan John.

As well as time, all training takes energy. We all know a heavy squat session takes a while to recover from, that's why we have things like the Texas Method with just one heavy set of squats, bench and deadlift a week. But practice of the sport takes energy, too.

Anabolic steroids are a time and energy multiplier, in that they let you get more out of your time lifting weights than you would otherwise. .....In other words, steroids let you get stronger even if you never set foot in the gym, and they let you get much more out of the gym than you would otherwise. Being able to save time and energy to spend on skills practice for your sport is a big deal.

Likewise, when D1 players are doing bosu lunge ISO twists....and one legged band pull-a-parts...with parter coach pushing down on hands....this wasted time would be better spent on basic barbell strength, OR the althete's specific sport.

Also, do you think tendons, ligaments, bones strengthen as much w/ heavy BBT vs the "roids only" method? Granted roids plus heavy barbell strength training is the best way to go by far.....what I'm getting at is....is it just me or does it seem like everyone gets hurt more frequently and more severe than say 10-15 years ago in the NFL,NBA,MLB...(fault of the roids only+over practice of the "sport" method)....

[gatorinexile]

On the more frequent and severe injury front: do people give any weight to the theory that the juice builds muscle faster than the connective parts can handle the added force?

[Mark Rippetoe]

I'm not familiar with that effect.

[DirtyRed]

I'm not familiar with that effect.

There's no shortage of anecdotal evidence (mostly from Triple H and Vince McMahon's quadriceps) that heavy steroid use might possibly potentially increase the chance of a complete muscle tear, the sort that is almost unheard of in people who aren't on the roids.

Though judging by the shit I've seen from Vince and Aitch in Men's Fitness (it was a copy lying on the gym's counter, don't judge me), I seriously doubt they were doing their properly performed squats. If fact, there was a picture of a comically swole Vince going crazy on the leg extension machine in the article. So maybe it is a lack of good training that causes Vince to explode his quads literally climbing into the ring, and not steroids.

[Kyle Schuant]

Or maybe you just smash into other players and the ground harder when you're 280 than when you're 200lbs...

[grumble]

The issue isn't only money, but time and energy.

Dan John tells a story of how he squatted 400lbs, and threw the discus 190ft. Over a couple of years he worked hard to get his squat up to 600lbs, and threw the discus... 186ft.

Now, being stronger didn't make him throw less far. It's simply that each hour spent in the gym was an hour less spent throwing the discus. Since the aim is to throw the discus as far as possible, you have to decide which time spent is going to give you the most increase. Obviously if you do not squat at all as a young (teenaged) athlete, getting it to even 200lbs will make you throw further. But evidently the time spent going from 400 to 600lbs was not well-spent for Dan John.

As well as time, all training takes energy. We all know a heavy squat session takes a while to recover from, that's why we have things like the Texas Method with just one heavy set of squats, bench and deadlift a week. But practice of the sport takes energy, too.

Anabolic steroids are a time and energy multiplier, in that they let you get more out of your time lifting weights than you would otherwise. At one of the SS seminars they quoted a study where a bunch of bros were given 12 weeks of weight training, or 12 weeks of steroids, or 12 weeks of both. The results were some numbers like, the guys who just lifted added 7lbs of lean mass, the guys who just took steroids added 4lbs, but the guys who did both added 13lbs.

(That a surge of testosterone lets you add mass even without lifting shouldn't surprise us, since that's what males do when they go through adolescence - even underfed Nintendo addicts will add something like 40lbs from 12 to 22yo.)

In other words, steroids let you get stronger even if you never set foot in the gym, and they let you get much more out of the gym than you would otherwise. Being able to save time and energy to spend on skills practice for your sport is a big deal.

What irritates me is the guys who took just the steroids were the ones who added the 7lbs, versus the guys who actually lifted weights gaining only 4lbs. Granted I'm sure their exercise program wasn't optimal for gaining muscle mass, but it speaks to the effectiveness of steroids in getting you some muscle on their own. It's annoying to think that I'm spending all this time in the gym trying to get in better shape and some guy is sitting on the couch outpacing me.

I do question if steroids have no direct endurance benefit, though; they increase red blood cell count and aid a great deal in recovery from intense exercise. Those things seem like they'd benefit endurance guys even if their squat didn't increase one pound. I imagine a Tour de France athlete would benefit hugely from the ability to recover better between stages, or the increased red blood cell count, or the prevention of muscle catabolism from the huge volume of endurance exercise, as well as the ability to train more often and work on things like technique and at a higher percentage of his maximum intensity before the event without having to worry as much about recovery.

[jdoolittle]

So maybe it is a lack of good training that causes Vince to explode his quads literally climbing into the ring, and not steroids.

Yeah up until the last maybe 10 years, wrestling was largely made up of bodybuilders who needed a way to make money. I don't find it hard to imagine most of them don't know what good training actually looks like.

One position I've heard regarding Professional Sport strength coaches' lack of actual strength training is that they're in the business of keeping the athletes injury free. Couple this with the fact that most of them seem to lack any actual ability to coach the big lifts and you get the shitstorm we have now.

[Sean Herbison]

They said that of all sports, baseball should be given a pass because it's more about skill and precision to hit the ball, rather than strength (which obviously isn't true).

I wouldn't say it's not true, just that it underestimates the usefulness of strength. I know some very strong guys who could never hit a pro-level curveball, and some weak little sticks who could push that same pitch right through the shortstop and 3rd baseman. Being strong just lets you put it there faster, but only assuming you can hit it and direct it in the first place.

Here's a photo montage of famous athletes before and after steroids : http://www.businessinsider.com/what-...-barry-bonds-1

It's not really fair to compare a young athlete with their later self and give all the credit to roids. If that were the case, someone could take a picture of me from high school or early college, compare it to a recent picture, and claim I went and got a juice-o-matic.

However, it seems to me that ...

Given that, it seems to me that ...

I would think that ...

Posts like this are seldom productive.

It depends on whether it's actually speculative or just used as a rhetorical effect. Benjamin Franklin used it to great effect. I guess Franklin would be the "seldom" case, though.

I have no inside knowledge of what happens in high school, college, and professional athletic strength programs

I do (up through college, not so much with professional), and there's a lot of silly crap. There's always some real lifting, but it's not often the priority. I got lucky enough to have a coach who gave us pretty good programming and teammates who pushed each other in the weight room, but other teams were not so fortunate.

[Automag]

I recall first hearing about steroids when I was in my early teens. I was told it was a magic pill that would make me stronger, which sounded great! I was overweight and weak, the idea of training gains w/o training effort was an appealing concept.

Then I heard it would mess with my genitals somehow. I don’t remember the exact details, but the idea that these pills might screw up my genitals was all the info I needed to hear to determine they were not for me. I had yet to actually have sex, but had high hopes of getting laid at some point, and expected my junk to actually work when finally called upon.

Whenever I hear talks about steroids, to this day (40 now) I associate steroids with somehow messing with my junk. I just did a quick search of side effects, which includes delayed puberty in adolescent boys, impotence, and some fancy words that describe lowered hormone production, I don’t know the odds, but it seems like a legit risk.

I wonder if young folks who do steroids are oblivious to the risks, or just figure (like why I started smoking), that bad stuff would skip over me. As a young, dumb teenager I was willing to roll the dice with the significant dangers that come with smoking, but I was not willing to roll the dice with anything that had even the smallest chance of messing with my junk.