Should I give up on low bar?

[tbennett]

It's useful to help understand the patient's perception if nothing else.

I've found it particularly useful in weeding out the ones who claim an 11 or higher....

[I_iz_a_fatass]

If you've ever fell of of a 3 wheeler and snapped your tail bone, you'd know pain in the 9+ range.

Having been awake when they removed the chest tubes after heart surgery, I know 9-range pain.

[Oldman]

Having been awake when they removed the chest tubes after heart surgery, I know 9-range pain.

Yeah, I've experienced this...twice. The first time they lied about how quick they could do it. The second time I had lots of time to think about it first, before they yanked...

[Will Morris]

Hahaha yea, I can imagine. I read a cracked article once, something like 5 things about the ER that would shock you. And he said that he can pretty much guarantee that if you come in and say you have a high pain tolerance, that you're completely full of shit, and probably a big baby.

People who claim a high pain tolerance, people with sleeve tattoos, and people who say they are bodybuilders tend to have subjective reports of pain out of proportion. Middle aged to elderly Asian women will never complain of pain.

[CJ Gotcher]

Why not listen to Rip? I am certain he has trouble shot this issue more than any of us and his suggestion will have a high probablity of solving the issue rather than overcomplicating this.

I don't think I communicated clearly the first time. I agree with Rip, and I partially agree with you as well- when experiencing shoulder pain in the squat, the two quickest ways to cure it are to widen the grip or, as The Book says,

If a lack of flexibility in the chest and shoulders prevents your achieving this position, use the high-bar position until proper stretching can make you flexible enough to get the bar down to a better position.

I disagree a little bit with your suggested mechanism for why this works. If I understood you correctly, you're suggesting that it's caused by the weight of the bar loading into the hands inappropriately. I'm not so sure. Loading the hands only happens if the elbows have dropped (and usually when the wrists are in extension). The resulting pain is usually felt in the wrist and elbow, not the shoulder. If this were the problem, the cure would be to roll the wrists forward and raise the elbows, not to widen the grip or switch to high-bar.

Other (smarter) people could speak to this better, but the limitation seems to be one of flexibility. The closer in my grip gets, the farther backward my shoulder/elbow has to travel to make it possible. If I combine that with a dramatic elevation of the elbows (to pinch the bar in place). I put an even greater demand on my shoulder's flexibility. When I open my grip wider, there's more 'slack' in the system to allow the elbows to rise. In the same way, by switching to high bar, my shoulder's don't have to travel back so far to allow the grip because the bar is physically farther forward to begin with.

I'm not trying to be flippant or contrary just for the sake of orneryness- I think for coaches and researchers, the 'why' matters a great deal. I could also very well be wrong, and I won't be upset if you can explain it to me.

[Bryan Dobson]

To put it as succinctly as possible.
The high bar moves the bar up the spine. This means given the same relative hand position as low bar there is less stress on the shoulders to get into position, the elbows are under less tension and it is less like
Y to transfer force from the bar down the arm and I to the shoulder instead of the bar and back interface.

Given the same relative position of the hands (width) the low bar will force the elbows lower. By widening the hand placement on the bar the elbows are higher and easier to rotate and less likely to take the weight of the bar.

Indicators that the bar weight is not being transferred by the back and bar interface but some is being taken by the arms is , hand, wrist, elbow or shoulder issues( in combination or alone) associated with squatting.

Yes, high bar can alleviate shoulder flexibility issues, but if it is at all possible, low bar, and the increased loading it allows should be used. If an ac joint is irritated address that first( personally I am not that smart). Then work towards getting a stable low bar position that does not cause the symptoms. The lift as instructed in Starting Strength, is too beneficial to give up on long term.

[sergiogodoymd]

My arms are short. The next level of widening my grip would be have them totally horizontal. Would that be a safe way to have the bar in my back?

[Mark Rippetoe]

Video.

[sbhikes]

When I woke up in the ER after my hysterectomy I could feel the pain. They asked me on the scale of 1-10. I said 6. No, 7...No 8. They put me out and I woke up later in my hospital room. I have no idea if it really was a 7 or 8, but I knew it was getting worse the more I woke up. I figure that's all they care about.

I have hurt my AC joint, but not from squats. In fact, when I began doing squats, my shoulders did hurt and I had trouble getting my hands inside the first line. I am 5'3" tall. Every time I went in I would try to move my hands inward a little. Eventually I got them all the way inside with an inch to spare. Squatting helped my old lady shoulders.

I tried high bar squats recently. Those kill my wrists. I do have fairly long forearms so maybe that is why. I didn't like high bar squatting so I quit doing it.

I met Brian Carroll recently (that's where I learned the high bar or regular powerlifter-style squat--they didn't actually call it high bar) and he says that there is an advantage to having the bar lower so even though he squats holding the bar in his hands like a high bar squatter he is trying to move the bar lower on his back to eek out a little more advantage.

[JNussbaum]

I know most people here will disagree, but I have had success doing something similar to this with straps and have gone as high as 375 without feeling like it might slip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceqG...e_gdata_player