Question on pull ups and bench press

[George Noble]

I don't understand how Scott proposes to add more muscles to the bench press,

Apparently by protracting the scapulae to add the serratus to the movement and increase the distance the bar travels, at the expense of shoulder stability. It doesn't seem like a good idea to me, but I haven't written any books or owned any gyms.

[Brad Davis]

Mark, I thought that active shoulder at the bottom of a pullup or chinup was defined as keeping the shoulder in an anti-shrugged position. At least that's what the CF people say. Am I mis-interpreting this?

[Mark Rippetoe]

Everybody is misinterpreting. 1.) The range of motion of the bench press does not increase if the shoulders are shrugged forward, because the range of motion around the shoulder joint does not increase when the scapula is shrugged up by the serratus. The bar may move a little farther, but the angle the humerus travels around the glenoid is the same, the stability on the bench is decreased, and the scapula is placed in a position where it is more likely to impinge when shrugged forward like this. 2.) Impingement is not a problem with either overhead pressing movements or overhead pulling movements if they are done correctly, with the scapulas shrugged superiorly and medially at the top of the press and hanging that way at the bottom of a pullup, because the bony components that could impinge are separated by the shrugged position. And 3.) the bottom of a pullup and the top of a press are not equivalent positions because the pullup is applying tension to the shoulders while the press is compressive -- the forces are acting in opposite directions, and countering the forces requires two different types of contractions. An "anti-shrug" at the bottom of the pullup is useful for decreasing the ROM if you are concerned about how many pullups you can do with any form in a finite amount of time, but decreasing the ROM also decreases the amount of muscle involved if you are concerned about using the pullup to strengthen as much muscle mass as possible. Using the pullup for metcon is a different thing than using it for upper-body strength.

And see this thread for more: http://strengthmill.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1668

[Jamie J. Skibicki]

What would you say about the push-up plus, with the anterior shoulder motion? WOuld these be okay since 1) the weight is lighter and 2) the floor is more stable than the bar.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Pushups have traditionally been the exercise of choice for problems involving the serratus anterior, for this reason. They are good because it's okay to shrug your bodyweight forward for higher reps with your elbows in a typical pushup alignment, with your body at an angle down toward your toes.