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Thread: Elite deadlifters

  1. #21
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    • starting strength seminar april 2024
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan Sutton View Post
    Well that's not entirely fair - I read SS (and PPST 2nd edition) cover to cover several times when I was starting out, and it's served me well. I also read the deadlift chapter that Rip posted when he was gearing up for the publication of the third edition. I'm a poor student unfortunately, so I decided not to get the updated copies when they were released. I'm definitely going to get PPST 3rd ed soon, as I want to have a look at the templates for training both olympic lifting and powerlifting, but didn't think the 3rd ed of SS was worth it. If it really has been updated that much, then I'll happily reconsider and get a copy.
    I am not here to sell books for Rip. However, you don't seem to have a good handle on how we teach the deadlift. There is no shrug in our setup, nor do we even mention the lats or the traps. The third edition goes into a lot of detail on these issues that was not in the second edition. Whether you wish to purchase the book is your decision. At the same time, I am not going to lay out, in exhaustive detail, what Rip already has. Many people like to say, "The Starting Strength way didn't work for me and therefore I do <insert something else here>." Almost invariably, they didn't do what we actually recommend, nor do they even understand what we recommend. Thus is the way of the Internet.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Campitelli View Post
    I am not here to sell books for Rip. However, you don't seem to have a good handle on how we teach the deadlift. There is no shrug in our setup, nor do we even mention the lats or the traps. The third edition goes into a lot of detail on these issues that was not in the second edition. Whether you wish to purchase the book is your decision. At the same time, I am not going to lay out, in exhaustive detail, what Rip already has. Many people like to say, "The Starting Strength way didn't work for me and therefore I do <insert something else here>." Almost invariably, they didn't do what we actually recommend, nor do they even understand what we recommend. Thus is the way of the Internet.
    There's a reason 'YNDTP' is a thing.

  3. #23
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    Dammit, i had hoped this thread wouldn't turn into someone not doing the program. No one has even commented on my link about the world strongest man 1996 and that makes me sad.

  4. #24
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    Bolton, as usual, is pretty spot on with his advice. I like his psyche up method at his gym where the whole room starts yelling and him and people start shoving him around and slapping him. Wish i could get my gym to do that!

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Campitelli View Post
    Rip has asked this question a number of times. No one has yet provided a compelling answer. Some people would point to a stretch reflex, but it is almost impossible to generate a meaningful stretch reflex prior to a deadlift unless you are doing RDLs.
    I've tried to figure it out myself as well, without much luck. While the "natural" way is not always the best, I have noticed, both in myself and others, a tendency to drop the hips right before the pull. This is more blatant in the Olympic lifts, but not uncommon in the deadlift.

    So I do wonder if there's something we're overlooking. You can't get much of a stretch reflex for a weighted concentric without a weighted eccentric, but I'd love it if someone could point out a reason it's so prevalent and/or natural.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean Herbison View Post
    I've tried to figure it out myself as well, without much luck. While the "natural" way is not always the best, I have noticed, both in myself and others, a tendency to drop the hips right before the pull. This is more blatant in the Olympic lifts, but not uncommon in the deadlift.

    So I do wonder if there's something we're overlooking. You can't get much of a stretch reflex for a weighted concentric without a weighted eccentric, but I'd love it if someone could point out a reason it's so prevalent and/or natural.
    I think there might be a psychological explanation, although the lifters involved aren't consciously aware of why they do it: If a lifter drops the hips too low before initiating the pull, the barbell will pull him into the correct position before leaving the ground. While not optimally efficient, the lifter isn't sacrificing huge pounds on the bar this way. On the other hand, if a lifter sets the hips a couple of inches high before initiating the pull, the barbell will come off the ground, but efficiency/poundage becomes severely compromised. The back probably rounds during the lift, and the lockout will be exponentially harder. In order to avoid this more extreme inefficiency, perhaps some lifters start too low as a sort of safety mechanism. Trying to set the hips correctly doesn't leave much room for error.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by KyleMask View Post
    If a lifter drops the hips too low before initiating the pull, the barbell will pull him into the correct position before leaving the ground. While not optimally efficient, the lifter isn't sacrificing huge pounds on the bar this way.
    Kyle's observation probably explains some of it. I also suspect that part of it is because it's a whole lot easier to get your back into extension when the hips are low. I've realized through experience and observation that a surprisingly large number of people who are relatively experienced lifters really don't have good conscious control of their spinal extensors. Setting the hips low makes it easy to get into decent extension, which seems like the right way to do it.

    The problem is this: in a similar way to the fact that you can't get as strong by pretending there is a 500 lb bar on your back and squatting as you can by actually squatting a 500 lb barbell, you can't set your back as hard without setting it against ALL THE WEIGHT. When your hips are low, the lifter/barbell system isn't in a position in which the weight will 'bite' and thus however hard you squeeze up, it won't be against the full load of the bar. So, although not sacrificing huge pounds on the bar - because you can squeeze against some % of the weight, this alone will probably sacrifice some lbs. Or kilos. Whichever you prefer.

  8. #28
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    As Kyle and Wolf have noted, most people probably find it more natural to get a neutral spine with lower hips and virtually all people i see deadlifting in commercial gyms do this. I used to do it when i first started lifting.

  9. #29
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    I've recently been thinking about this as well. The explanation I've given myself is that I'm trying to get as tight as possible (I think squoze is the term I've seen before) by raising my chest up. At some point, the only way I can keep raising my chest without the bar leaving the floor is for my hips to start to lower (actually during the first couple of warmup sets the bar will slightly come off the floor when I raise my chest). As soon as my hips start to drop, that's my cue to start the pull.

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