Some silly questions on adductors and pelvises

[spiderbro]

I asked these questions in a topic on Rip's Q&A but I guess they were too silly to be approven. I even used the search and everything before asking

The topic talked about the role of the adductors in the squat. Since the hamstrings cross certain two joints, they do not change much in length in the squat. But the adductors do, so do you ever see people with adductor tightness limiting their squat? If you do, I guess it's solved by the "squat stretch" and just squatting while trying to push your knees out?

Cause I have a friend whom I've been trying to coach, and I can't get his knees out enough. I don't have a video, unfortunately, but his knees basically point almost forward throughout and they dip even more in during the last few inches of his squat. Weight on the bar makes no difference. I've had him do the squat stretch both for a few seconds for proprioception before lifting and for longers periods after workouts to increase his flexibility but it hasn't worked. He can't keep his knees out very far in the stretch position either. I've had him try the hip abduction machine too to no avail. I can only think of qetting his squat up in hope that it will fix things, as currently he only squats around 80kg (175lbs) for the 3x5.


Another thing is his pelvis. I have a picture here showing some of his back positions during his deadlift setup. I read Lascek's blog that talked a bit about different shapes of pelvises, and I think my friend has a "longer" kind of a pelvis. You can see in the pictures that his lower back is just about always rounded, and when he extends his back, the extension happens more in the thoracic area. His low back looks like a solid lump instead of vertebrae connected to each other, making his lower back look rounded. But I think his back is actually quite good in the middle (tight) picture, if not even overextended in the thoracic area. He loses some of the tightness during the lift, but that's a bit of another issue. I've had him do the "superman" but it didn't really change anything. Am I correct in my analysis?

Also, I'm desperate for the 5 more posts I need to be able to post to the Nutrition forum. Feel free to ask me silly questions in turn so that I can achieve this.

[Tom Campitelli]

But the adductors do, so do you ever see people with adductor tightness limiting their squat?

I have not.

Cause I have a friend whom I've been trying to coach, and I can't get his knees out enough. I don't have a video, unfortunately, but his knees basically point almost forward throughout and they dip even more in during the last few inches of his squat. Weight on the bar makes no difference. I've had him do the squat stretch both for a few seconds for proprioception before lifting and for longers periods after workouts to increase his flexibility but it hasn't worked. He can't keep his knees out very far in the stretch position either. I've had him try the hip abduction machine too to no avail. I can only think of qetting his squat up in hope that it will fix things, as currently he only squats around 80kg (175lbs) for the 3x5.

Where do you live? It might be time to visit a Starting Strength Coach.

Another thing is his pelvis. I have a picture here showing some of his back positions during his deadlift setup. I read Lascek's blog that talked a bit about different shapes of pelvises, and I think my friend has a "longer" kind of a pelvis. You can see in the pictures that his lower back is just about always rounded, and when he extends his back, the extension happens more in the thoracic area. His low back looks like a solid lump instead of vertebrae connected to each other, making his lower back look rounded. But I think his back is actually quite good in the middle (tight) picture, if not even overextended in the thoracic area. He loses some of the tightness during the lift, but that's a bit of another issue. I've had him do the "superman" but it didn't really change anything. Am I correct in my analysis?

Your friend probably is not a natural athlete and needs a coach. His inability to hold his back in extension on the pull has nothing to do with the shape of his pelvis.

Also, I'm desperate for the 5 more posts I need to be able to post to the Nutrition forum. Feel free to ask me silly questions in turn so that I can achieve this.

Don't bother Jordan. For real. He's the only one answering questions in that subforum. Use the search link I created in the sticky on his forum and spend the next two weeks reading his previous answers. Chances are you don't need to ask a new question. You just need to read some more.

[spiderbro]

Thank you for your answer, I was beginning to think I overloaded you guys with the silliness. We live in Finland and there's actually the one Finnish coach quite near us, but my friend doesn't really buy the "strength is the most important thing" aspect and goes to the gym more for recreation. I'll try to talk him through but I don't think he wants to spend the money. He's indeed one crappy athlete.

Yeah, his inability to hold his back in extension indeed has nothing to do with the shape of the pelvis, but getting his back into extension to begin with might. Or, that's how I see things. Here's what Lascek has written:
"After observing many limbs and trunks, I started noticing differences in pelvis length. The pelvis itself starts at the sacrum (below the last lumbar vertebrae), wraps around your sides in the form of the iliac crest, and then the pubis closes in from each side on the front of your body at a connection called the pubic symphysis. Usually pelvis variations aren’t a big deal, but if a person has a very long pelvis it alters how they look when squatting or deadlifting. Their low back never looks like it’s extended and can even look like it is lumped out, appearing to be in flexion. Instead, their pelvis may be long enough such that it doesn’t produce a fancy lordotic curve when in position (particularly the bottom of a squat and the start of a deadlift). I’m not saying this is the case all of the time, but it is definitely a possibility; it isn’t crazy to assume pelvises come in varying lengths/widths while we commonly accept that spinal columns, femurs, tibias, humeri, and radii/ulnas all vary in size and shape."

I don't know if this is the case in the picture I posted or if any of this is true, but it makes a lot of sense to me. He still needs proper coaching, admittedly. But just the concept itself is interesting.

And I might just let Jordan be for now. I've read the forum a decent bit but, naturally, I can't say I've read it all. For now I'd just like to know how "strict" the macro distributions he recommends in the blog post are. The recommendation of 0.35 g/lb of fat for recomp seems very low and I have trouble achieving that in my current life situation. Would something like 0.5g/lb for fat and I guess 1g/lb for carbs and 1.05g/lb for protein be much worse?

[Tom Campitelli]

The thing is that your friend gets his back in extension just fine at the bottom of a deadlift. I've gotten to watch a lot of people deadlift and have not noted that the posterior aspect of their pelvises make their backs appear in flexion.

As for macros, if you wish to maintain the same energy balance, any uptick in fat consumption would need to be countered by a lowering of one of the other macros, probably carbs. If you insist upon counting macros, try doing things Jordan's way for several weeks. See how it goes. Then, if appropriate, make small changes. I don't recommend counting macros for most people, however.

[spiderbro]

Thank you again.

I've just about finished LP and I feel like carrying a bit too much, being around 20bf%. I'm now looking to cut that down to around 15% while making the gainzz I can, so I thought I'd try to "optimize my nutritional program" like Jordan says. Before, I just ate everything as much as I could which worked ok but now I want to see if things feel any different doing Jordan's way. I've been certainly getting way more fat and way less carbs than what he recommends, and a bit less protein too. I can get very close to his recommendations calorie-wise, but sometimes I have 3g of fat, 10g of carbs and 20g of protein left at the end of the day and I just don't have the food(s) that could fulfill that quota. And estimating the macros in school lunch feels very inaccurate, which makes me feel like it's no use tracking the macros for that day at all. I guess I'll just keep trying my best.

[Tom Campitelli]

You can certainly add some fat and cut some carbohydrates if that makes it easier to eat normal food. One can only eat so many chicken breasts before they lose their charm.

I have 3g of fat, 10g of carbs and 20g of protein left at the end of the day and I just don't have the food(s) that could fulfill that quota.

That's pretty good if you come in that close. A little yogurt with some whey protein mixed in would probably get you there in the case above.

Note: the world is officially coming to an end when I start providing nutritional advice.

[spiderbro]

Alright, I have a question that might come close to breaking records in sillyness.

We all know the leg extension machine loads the knee ligaments anteriorly. Some people say that the exercise will damage your knees, but I've been wondering what the exact cause of this is. Is it because the ACL has to balance out the pull of the quads which might be too much and could lead to ACL damage? Well, ligaments adapt too, just at a slower pace, so couldn't it be possibly beneficial to start light and slowly progress on the leg extension to strengthen the ACL?
Or is the danger more about the tibia being pulled forward from it's regular position, making it "grind" on the stuff between the bones in a bad way? In this case, why isn't the leg curl machine nor GHRs considered dangerous - surely they load the knee only posteriorly in a similar fashion, the quads being quite absent in those movements?

[Leah Lutz]

You can certainly add some fat and cut some carbohydrates if that makes it easier to eat normal food. One can only eat so many chicken breasts before they lose their charm.



That's pretty good if you come in that close. A little yogurt with some whey protein mixed in would probably get you there in the case above.

Note: the world is officially coming to an end when I start providing nutritional advice.

You can only imagine the great joy this provides. Tom and macro advice.

[Tom Campitelli]

You can only imagine the great joy this provides. Tom and macro advice.

It is the fucking End Times. That is what this signifies. I feel dirty. On the plus side, just wait for my ebook on how to develop ripped abdominals.

[Tom Campitelli]

Alright, I have a question that might come close to breaking records in sillyness.

We all know the leg extension machine loads the knee ligaments anteriorly. Some people say that the exercise will damage your knees, but I've been wondering what the exact cause of this is. Is it because the ACL has to balance out the pull of the quads which might be too much and could lead to ACL damage? Well, ligaments adapt too, just at a slower pace, so couldn't it be possibly beneficial to start light and slowly progress on the leg extension to strengthen the ACL?
Or is the danger more about the tibia being pulled forward from it's regular position, making it "grind" on the stuff between the bones in a bad way? In this case, why isn't the leg curl machine nor GHRs considered dangerous - surely they load the knee only posteriorly in a similar fashion, the quads being quite absent in those movements?

I suggest squatting over using the leg extension or leg curl machines when stronger knees are desired. However, how many people do you know that do leg extensions? How many of them have suffered ACL injuries from doing so? How many people do you know that suffered ACL injuries playing basketball, or football, or <insert team sport involving chasing a ball>?