Deadlift help (177,5kg)

[Rasmus Bengtsen]

Hi Coaches,

After a period with many pauses and hiccups in my training, I have now been doing the program for a few months and started on an intermediate program. I am having some problems with my deadlift, though. Specifically I'm pretty sure it's the setup I'm not getting right. When I start lifting it seems I rock back before the plates leave the ground. I am really trying to "sit back" on my heels to mitigate this before initiating the pull, but it seems ineffective. Also, my lower back seems to bend, especially on the later reps, and I'm thinking it has to do with wrong setup?
I suspect these plates are not standard size. I haven't measured them but they seem smaller than Ø45cm. Also, this set was done after my volume squats (5x5@130kg), maybe that has something to do with it also?

Stats:
Age: 34
Height: 192cm
Weight: ~100kg

Well, here is my set of 5@177,5kg I hope the angle reveals all my mistakes.


Thanks for looking!

[Tom Campitelli]

Those deadlifts are kind of ugly, but I suspect you need to solve an equipment problem first. What is the diameter of the largest plate you are using? It should be 45 cm. Those look significantly smaller than that. You look to be doing deficit deadlifts, whether you intend to, or not.

[Rasmus Bengtsen]

I brought a tape measure to the gym today, and the plates are indeed only 40 cm across... That might explain my inability to get into a good position before the pull?

I am trying to find a place to buy regular sized plates for cheap (should be possible as I live in China). But until then, is it ok to put something underneath the plates to raise them up 2.5 cm?

[Tom Campitelli]

I brought a tape measure to the gym today, and the plates are indeed only 40 cm across... That might explain my inability to get into a good position before the pull?

I am trying to find a place to buy regular sized plates for cheap (should be possible as I live in China). But until then, is it ok to put something underneath the plates to raise them up 2.5 cm?

Yeah. Do that. Then film your set again. It will probably be a little easier.

[Rasmus Bengtsen]

So I did my deadlifts last night with some 2.5 kg plates laid out to raise the bar exactly 2.5 cm, and it felt so much better. My phone fell over while filming, though, so I don't have a video. Is it ok to update this thread next week when I do my deadlifts again?

Another question:
I am doing a 4-day split programme like this:
Mon: Heavy squat 1x5, power cleans 15x1 (one rep every 30 secs), pullups (30 reps in as few sets possible)
Tues: Heavy BP 1x5, vol OHP 5x5, 3x12 dips
Thurs: Vol squats 5x5, DL 1x5, DB rows 3x12
Fri: Heavy OHP 1x5, vol BP 5x5, LTE 3x12

All volume sets are at 90% of heavy day and I throw in HIIT on the dynobike 1-2 times per week.

Should I DL before I squat? I've only gone through 2 weeks of this programme and I feel pretty fatigued after 5x5 squat and start with DL.

[Tom Campitelli]

A more normal four day split would be

Mon - upper body
Tues - lower
Thurs - upper
Fri - lower

Monday and Tuesday would tend to be more volume-ish training and Thursday and Friday intensity-ish. I would not recommend deadlifting before squatting, but you might want to more your heavy deads to the same day as your heavy squats. You may also have to back off the DL weight a little if you keep the 5x5 squat on the same day.

[Rasmus Bengtsen]

Thanks for the reply Tom! It does make sense to do DLs on the same day as the heavy squats and I will definitely follow that piece of advice. I originally settled on the lower body before upper body setup because I do karate in the evening on Tues and Fri, and I would often be too beat up from squatting in the morning to get a good training in the evening. I will try switching it to the recommended order, though, and see how it goes.
Isn't volume on both bench and press in the same session a bit much?

I'm hope my questions aren't too much, but thanks anyways for the valuable input!

[Tom Campitelli]

There are a few ways to skin the volume/intensity approach for upper body. Por ejemplo:

Mon - Press Intensity, Volume Bench
Thurs - Bench Intensity, Volume Press

Winds up being fairly straightforward. You can also do something like:

Mon - Volume Press, Bench as Assistance
Thurs - Intensity Press, Bench as Assistance

Mon - Volume Bench, Press as Assistance
Thurs - Intensity Bench, Press as Assistance

How you allocate the press and bench as assistance would probably vary a little based on how you respond and how much time you have. If the split you are using works based on your karate schedule, stick with it.

[Rasmus Bengtsen]

Thanks again 汤姆同志 (Comrade Tom)

I tried switching upper and lower body on Monday and Tuesday, but my karate training Tuesday evening was pretty bad as my sore and spent hip hip adductors affected my kicking.
I have switched volume and intensity squat days, though. So today I did heavy squats followed by heavy deadlifts.

Last time my deadlifts felt much better from raising them 2.5 cm, so I decided to go up to 180 kg this time. I got them filmed, and as you can see, they are still pretty ugly, marginally better imho, but still ugly. A little less tilting back before initiating the pull, but lower back is still rounding. I am aware that I will probably have to deload a bit to bring form into place, but I sorely need advice on what exactly to change.

Video:

[Tom Campitelli]

The bar still looks like it may be a little too low, but you are correct. Take some weight off the bar and find a weight where you can hold your back flat. As you round your back, you tend to kick the bar forward. Keep your back held in extension and make sure to drag the bar up your legs. Some long socks will help.