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"knees out" theory
Tom C said once that some people have a really hard time keeping their knees out, and some people never have problems with it. I was wondering if perhaps it had anything to do with someone's gait pronation. I have always had a hard time with "knees out". I also am supinated and have really high arches. So, the weight wants to shift medially on my feet, because that's where the empty space is, this making it easier for my knees to come in. Being naturally supinated also means that my ankle naturally rolls outward, which means that my knee naturally wants to be more on the inside. It's easy to imagine someone with flatter feet or a neutral gate having an easier time keeping the knees out because that's where they more naturally want to be because of their anthropometry. What do you think?
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I would guess the opposite. I also tend toward supination and my knees stay planted without a problem, even at 1 RM attempts. If the foot wants to roll out, that would potentially want to take the tibia with it. That is, you could potentially argue supination encourages knees out, not knees in. However, I suspect keeping the knees out has less to do with the feet and more to do with the hips. How are you at external rotation of the femur. Can you do a butterfly stretch pretty easily?
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Oh, yeah, you're totally right with that argument. Makes perfect sense.Originally Posted by Tom Campitelli
Well, my heels are about 4" from my crotch, but bending forward is a challenge.
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High arched supinator here
Knees out comes easily for me. Then again I can also easily do the stretch mentioned by Tom.
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Yeah, I am inclined to think that people that naturally externally rotate well have an easier time keeping their knees out. However, there are a lot more variables than just that. I don't even know what all the variables involved are. All I know is that some people, despite lots of cueing and lots of effort on their part struggle to keep them out. For some other folks, it is rarely, if ever, an issue.
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As Wolf observed first hand last week, I can easily take my left knee out beyond my toes during a squat - a bit too much. My right knee stays in line with toes though. This leads me to support the observation that is has to do with hip rotation flexibility more than supination/pronation of the feet.
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+1 on this one.
However also, FWIW as N=1, I personally seem to have (shockingly) a structural abnormality in my left hip; add it to the list of my messed up body. As a consequence, I have very little external rotation ROM. I couldn't sit <trigger warning> Indian style even in nursery school (still can't), and can't even get into position to do the "piriformis stretch" on my left side. When Dr.s Petrizzo and Alter examined me a few weeks ago for my back tweak, they were amazed at my ROM restriction there. Yet, I don't and never have had a problem keeping my knees out in the squat.
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Shit you're telling us being strong AF doesn't require them stretches?? But but but, you become so inflexible from lifting!
Gotta go with tom c I guess. Flat feet, especially loaded, rol inward, ankle collapses, and that moves up the kinetic chain. Got flat feet myself, used to be a thing, but with orthotics and lifting shoes it's fairly easy to fix. One might imagine that with an extreme high arches the same happens, when the feet just isn't apt to keep the arch up but....
I've never run someone trough an LP so I don't know how this goes long term, but there's this vast majority of people who are absolutely motor neuron squatters. Ie first time squats. Then can deadlift, press, bp (albeit terrible form or not, its still a fairly everyday pattern) but squats somehow are always the worst. People just dont squat prior. guess you can get away with flat feet and or weak abductor in everyday activity but it greatly shows up when you load a movement. Or am I making things up
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