What is the role of the hands in the squat?

[aWalkingShadow]

More specifically, in which direction should the hands be applying force to the bar, during a low bar squat?

My understanding is that the hands should at the very least apply a force in the forward direction in order to prevent the bar from rolling off the rear deltoids. If this is true, then my question becomes whether the hands should apply any force in the vertical direction; i.e. should the hands push down on the bar diagonally into the rear delts, push slightly upwards and forwards, or only forwards?

I also want to know whether the wrists should be gripping the bar and actively “twist” the bar forward to further prevent any backward roll? Or should all the force directed in the forward direction come strictly from arms pressing the bar into the upper back?

The reason I ask all these questions is that I am having some anterior shoulder pain from low bar squatting. I have been using the false grip, neutral wrists, elbows up method taught by Starting Strength. I don’t think it’s a flexibility issue because I can get into the low bar position quite easily. But when there is any significant weight on the bar, I need to lift my elbows in order to create a good shelf, and this cranks my hands down, pressing the bar down into my back; all of this, particularly my hands being cranked downwards and forwards, causes pain in my anterior left shoulder. So, right now I’m experimenting with different grips, different wrist positions in particular (my preliminary tests show that bending my wrists helps), and I feel that having a better idea of the biomechanics of bar placement would help.

[Tom Campitelli]

The hands should do as little as possible. The hands and arms intercept a little of the load as they function to keep the bar on the shelf formed by the posterior delts, but you don't want to try and "bend the bar around your back" during the squat, or support most of the weight of the bar in the hands. If the bar wants to roll down your back, the bar may be sitting too low. Have you checked out any of the videos on this site about bar placement? Don't be afraid to wrap your thumb around the bar, too. Some peeps prefer that. There is a fair amount of room for personal preference here.

[Alexander Dargatz]

I'm no SSC, but I've had similar problems at first. It helped me to try and create a shelf not by lifting the elbows (many lift the elbows too high, which can lead to its own problems), but by focusing on "chest out" cue and raising the shoulders a little bit. I definitely agree with Coach Tom C., especially that the hands should do as little as possible. (there is a video on youtube of Mikhail Koklyaev doing a heavy ass back squat without having his hands on the bar at all)

[Satch12879]

Tom, keeping the chest up would help with this, yes? OP's log videos tell the tale.

[Austin Baraki]

Don't be afraid to wrap your thumb around the bar, too. Some peeps prefer that. There is a fair amount of room for personal preference here.

[Rail]

I had the same kind of pain. I resolved it by reading the appropriate sections of the book a few times over, and using video to watch myself squat. Basically, the general problem was that a combination of errors led me to support the weight with my arms as opposed to my back. Here's how I fixed it...

• Made sure my arms were roughly at the same angle as my back - Video revealed I was a textbook example of the elbow problem. This also helped with the upper back issue noted further down.
• Made sure the bar was in the right position - I had it too low. You might want to place it a tad high to compensate for any settling which may occur when you lift it out of the rack.
• Learned what it means to have a tight upper back - Mine was a mess. Raise your chest and keep it there. For me there was more to it but this is a good start.
• Lean forward a hair - I kept trying to stand straight up out of the rack. Even with perfect form, you'll never be able to stand perfectly straight with the bar on your back. By lean forward I mean hinge at the hips with your back locked and extended. Do this when you unrack the bar and stay that way until the bar is off your back. It's very slight so don't over do it and make sure your back is properly locked the whole time.

Since addressing the above, other than some slight pressure forward, I hardly use my arms at all and my shoulders feel great. My squat has also been progressing nicely since then. It's not that I wasn't progressing before, it's just that I enjoy squatting a lot more, and getting the reps out has been much easier despite the fact that I'm pushing more weight.

Tom, please correct me if this sounds off base. Just because it's working doesn't mean it's correct.

[Chris Lippke]

I lol'd.

Thumbs-around results may vary:

[Michael Wolf]

Thumbs-around results may vary:

Oh that was well played, sir!

I agree with Austin (and Tom) here, and have been playing with thumbs around myself lately due to elbow and (I think) brachialis pain. I should note that of the hundreds of people I've coached for a prolonged period of time, very few have had this elbow/upper arm pain issue with the thumbs over grip. And I personally strongly prefer the upper back tightness the standard SS grip provides, and can better keep the bar in place when taking it vs thumbs around.

But if you do have an arm pain issue with thumbs over - as I do, and a handful of people I've coached - then it should be obvious that a tertiary thing like grip is NOT the hill to die on. It constantly amazes me seeing comments whenever an SSC posts a video with thumbs around the bar. I guess if you don't fully understand what's going on in the squat, a superficial thing like a small grip adjustment could seem like "OMG it's not even SS anymore!" Even though grip shouldn't have anything to do with the squat mechanics themselves.

Finally, to the original OPs question: I've actually found that an awful lot of people, when taking a thumbs over grip, don't hold the bar securely unless you specifically tell them to. For some reason they think "thumb over" means "completely passive from the elbow up" and they lift their elbows but otherwise just lazily drape their arms and hands over the bar. And then the bar predictably moves around on their backs during reps. Elbows up (not excessively, but enough to create the shelf of upper back tightness and muscular bunching) will prevent it from rolling down, but completely passive arms and hands, like I see many people do, leaves the bar prone to rolling UP as the lifter leans over.

So while excessive force here can cause issues, there is a role to play for the arms and hands to keep the bar in place. The leveraging of the elbows up that naturally pushes the hands down into the back is used to pin the bar to the back, and the fingers are still wrapped around and grabbing the bar, even though the thumb is over.

[Dlk93]

Just switched to thumbs around and elbow/brachialis pain went away. Can one of the SSC's or anyone with more anatomical sense than I explain the connection between the two? It's seems such a minute change.

[Tom Campitelli]

This is something that is dependent upon segment length and individual variation. Wrapping the thumbs changes the position of the wrist and how much extension the shoulders are in. This in turn changes how stress gets communicated to the elbow. For some people this results in immediate relief of elbow pain. In others, it causes elbow pain and in most people it increases the stress on the wrist. There is only one way to find out and that is to try it. I find squatting with thumbs around to be very uncomfortable. For some of my trainees, it is a miracle cure for their elbow pain.