Squat form check and shoulder/wrist pain

[timelinex]

I've always been very inflexible but I have improved immensely in the last 6 months. At first I couldn't get my hands far enough back to do the proper hold on a low bar squat but months later I can. I've been having alot of shoulder pain /weakness lately and at first I thought it was my benching. I moved my grip in a little and that did take care of all my FRONT shoulder pain but now I still have pain in the back of the shoulder. When not doing activity, I don't have pain but my shoulder joint just overall feels weak. A few days ago I realized that all this pain might be stemming from my squats and not from the typically expected lifts like benching/OHP. The squat is ALSO causing pain in my left wrist.

I have attached 2 videos from 2 different camera positions. This is me doing a medium weight for the purpose of the videos. I did read the Sticky that it should be only 5x, but that was after making the video and I already made this thinking more reps would be better for a video. I am also open for an overall form critique as well, in case I'm doing something else wrong.








I have my hands as wide as I can before running into the bar rests. You can see in the video that my wrists are pretty bent. After reviewing the SS book again I have been able to straighten them by picking up my elbows BUT then I am at the absolute limit of my flexibility. My wrist pain goes away and my shoulder pain intensifies. Not good. I've been sacrificing my wrists since that pain goes away immediately while my shoulders have been sore for weeks now. (I wakeboard on the weekends and that exacerbates the shoulder soreness) But I really want to nip this issue in the butt ASAP so I don't develop long term issues.

I have started to do shoulder dislocations with a DIY stick hoping that will eventually help. Any critique or advice would be appreciated.

Thanks

[Tom Campitelli]

You are essentially doing a high bar squat with the bar low on your back right now, which is not ideal. Neither of your videos really tell me much about this problem. Do the normal things. Watch the bar placement videos on this site, make sure the bar is not too low, check out Paul Horn's low bar stretch video, stop pushing down on the bar, try wrapping your thumbs around the bar. There is another thread about wrist and elbow pain that I just replied to that will help you, too.

[timelinex]

You are essentially doing a high bar squat with the bar low on your back right now, which is not ideal. Neither of your videos really tell me much about this problem. Do the normal things. Watch the bar placement videos on this site, make sure the bar is not too low, check out Paul Horn's low bar stretch video, stop pushing down on the bar, try wrapping your thumbs around the bar. There is another thread about wrist and elbow pain that I just replied to that will help you, too.

Thank you for the reply. I will try to get a better video this week following the advice of the Sticky. I'll have my wife record it from the rear quarter at eye left, unless you want a different specific angle.

What do you mean by I might be doing a high bar squat with a low bar position. As far as I understand it, the low bar squat should be almost the same mechanical movement except the bar position and the resulting adjustments that need to be made to keep the bar midfoot (back angle).

Since I know Rippetoe is big on it, the only thing I can think of is the 'hips first hip drive", since my squats don't look like they go hip first but rather everything goes up at the same time. I thought "hip drive" is more of a cue to make sure the beginner doesn't drive with his chest (a.k.a lift his chest out of the whole), rather than the goal literally being hips going up first and changing your back angle.

[timelinex]

Thank you for your response.

I'm not sure if I didn't hit send on my last reply or if every post needs to be approved first. I just asked for your explanation of what you mean by me doing a high bar squat with a low bar position. The only thing I could think of is that my hips don't rise first coming out of the hole and instead everything goes up simultaneously. I thought this was more of a cue for beginners to not drive with their chest and that ultimately the goal is to keep your back angle the same throughout the entire lift.

Anyways, I was able to record a much better video for you. I have no idea why I didn't hit good depth on these, as you saw in my previous videos I usually do, but it looks like I was a few inches away on these. Not sure what happened. Anyways, any comments or advice based on this better footage?

[Tom Campitelli]

What do you mean by I might be doing a high bar squat with a low bar position. As far as I understand it, the low bar squat should be almost the same mechanical movement except the bar position and the resulting adjustments that need to be made to keep the bar midfoot (back angle).

This is not correct. I recommend reading Starting Strength for a complete treatment of the topic.

Since I know Rippetoe is big on it, the only thing I can think of is the 'hips first hip drive", since my squats don't look like they go hip first but rather everything goes up at the same time. I thought "hip drive" is more of a cue to make sure the beginner doesn't drive with his chest (a.k.a lift his chest out of the whole), rather than the goal literally being hips going up first and changing your back angle.

Once again, the book is your friend here. I have an enormous backlog of posts to get through, so I will leave this as a homework assignment for you.

I'm not sure if I didn't hit send on my last reply or if every post needs to be approved first.

In addition to reading the book, you need to read the sticky in full.

My previous critiques apply. You need to stop leading with your chest and you need to drive your hips up. Narrow your stance a little. Stand up all the way at the top. Look down. Go deeper.

[timelinex]

This is not correct. I recommend reading Starting Strength for a complete treatment of the topic.



Once again, the book is your friend here. I have an enormous backlog of posts to get through, so I will leave this as a homework assignment for you.



In addition to reading the book, you need to read the sticky in full.

My previous critiques apply. You need to stop leading with your chest and you need to drive your hips up. Narrow your stance a little. Stand up all the way at the top. Look down. Go deeper.

I narrowed my stance, looked more down, made sure I hit depth, shoved out my knees and attempted to lead a little more with my hips from out of the hole. I was a little more fidgety setting up as I was trying to think about the changes. Let me now what you think:

June 27, 2017 - YouTube



BTW, I have read both SS and practical programming. I self-taught myself how to do all the movements so I have also watched all of rippetoe's videos and reread the squat section MANY times. So am very well aware of everything in the book, I came here for help beyond what my eye could notice and see.

[Tom Campitelli]

So am very well aware of everything in the book

Based on what you have written in your previous posts, I would not agree.

I came here for help beyond what my eye could notice and see.

And I have provided my suggestions to you regarding what I think you should do on the squat. You probably are not deep enough, but, since the video was taken from a standing position, I cannot say that for sure. You need to lean over a little more and drive your hips up instead of leading with your chest. More or less the same things as before.

[timelinex]

Based on what you have written in your previous posts, I would not agree.



And I have provided my suggestions to you regarding what I think you should do on the squat. You probably are not deep enough, but, since the video was taken from a standing position, I cannot say that for sure. You need to lean over a little more and drive your hips up instead of leading with your chest. More or less the same things as before.

Is this any better?

Squats - YouTube

I'm really trying to make the changes! I'm bottoming out my depth and trying to drive up with my hips first. It doesn't look a ton different than the previous ones but it did feel like my hips went up first.

[Tom Campitelli]

The reason they feel so deep is that your knees are traveling so far forward. This has the effect of moving the goal post. The further forward your knees go, the lower the patella drops and the lower the crease of your hips must go. Hold your knees back more. Quite a bit more. This will cause you to lean over more, too. That is not a bad thing, however. It will feel pretty weird the first time you try it and you might almost have to think about squatting with vertical shins. In reality, your knees will go slightly in front of your toes, but you may need an exaggerated cue to get you out of your current pattern.

[timelinex]

The reason they feel so deep is that your knees are traveling so far forward. This has the effect of moving the goal post. The further forward your knees go, the lower the patella drops and the lower the crease of your hips must go. Hold your knees back more. Quite a bit more. This will cause you to lean over more, too. That is not a bad thing, however. It will feel pretty weird the first time you try it and you might almost have to think about squatting with vertical shins. In reality, your knees will go slightly in front of your toes, but you may need an exaggerated cue to get you out of your current pattern.

Thank you for this. It's exactly right. I was able to implement your suggestions by just leaning over a little more horizontal, you can see me doing that right before my set. This helped me reach depth for sure. I THOUGHT I was leading with my hips out of the hole, but it still seems like I'm mostly going up as one piece. I guess I have to work on that still.




So now I think all I got left is to focus on pushing my hips out of the bottom even more. Otherwise, does it look better now?
My only concern is that at this new back angle, I do feel more tension in my lower back and I also lose balance a little more easily when I'm getting fatigued (I was pretty solid with my old form). Not sure if thats just from not being used to it though.