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Thread: Deadlift Trainer Debate - Form Check

  1. #1
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    Default Deadlift Trainer Debate - Form Check

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    Hey Guys,

    I have been going to a personal trainer rehabbing a nagging groin injury and we have been debating Deadlift form for a few weeks. The trainer is having me do FORM 1 and I personally have done FORM 2 for years. Let me know if one is right of if you think both are wrong. Excited to hear the feedback.

    Bar Weight: 135 lbs
    My Height & Weight: 5' 10" 163lbs

    Form 1:
    Form 2:

  2. #2
    Brodie Butland is offline Starting Strength Coach
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    Your hips are too low in both, so I say neither.

  3. #3
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    Looks like your trainer wants you to squat the weight up? I don't know really.

    Your FORM 2 looks better to me but I agree with Brodie. I think you need to put the bar closer to the middle of your foot and that's gonna help you getting your hips higher.

  4. #4
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    What you need to do is after you set your hips low like that, reach the hips up high and put a ton of tension on the hamstrings and pull your lumbar spine into extension so it is flat. Your hips should be just below your shoulders before you start. You can see in video 2 that your hips shoot up right away, so just put them in that position before you lift. You're in hybrid Squat/Deadlift limbo in those two videos. Remember to pull against the bar, lifting 134 lb before you start, to bring your thoracic and lumbar spine into position and anteriorly rotate your hips. Maybe crank the head back down to the ground while you're at it too so your cervical spine isn't in full extension.

  5. #5
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    Number 2 is better than one, but two is still wrong. Even at relatively light weight, your hips are the first thing to move. This is wrong, and bad. Don't do this!

    Quote Originally Posted by Blochowiak View Post
    What you need to do is after you set your hips low like that,...
    Don't set your hips low, period. Where do I set my hips, you may ask? Well, we have a five step deadlift setup that provides a consistent setup with correct hip height for everyone, regardless of limb lengths. See below:

    The Deadlift: Perfect Every Time

    1. Take your stance, feet a little closer than you think it needs to be and with your toes out more than you like. Your shins should be about one inch from the bar, no more. This places the bar over the mid-foot – the whole foot, not the mid-instep.

    2. Take your grip on the bar, leaving your hips up. DO NOT MOVE THE BAR.

    3. Drop your knees forward and out until your shins touch the bar. DO NOT MOVE THE BAR. (This, with the previous three steps, will determine proper hip height.)

    4. Hard part: squeeze your chest up as hard as you can. DO NOT MOVE THE BAR. This establishes a "wave" of extension that goes all the way down to the lumbar, and sets the back angle from the top down. DO NOT LOWER YOUR HIPS – LIFT THE CHEST TO SET THE BACK ANGLE.

    5. Squeeze the bar off the floor and drag it up your legs in contact with your skin/sweats until it locks out at the top. If you have done the above sequence precisely as described, the bar will come off the ground in a perfectly vertical path. All the slack will have come out of the arms and hamstrings in step 4, the bar will not jerk off the ground, and your back will be in good extension. You will perceive that your hips are too high, but if you have completed step 4 correctly, the scapulas, bar, and mid-foot will be in vertical alignment and the pull will be perfect. The pull will seem "shorter" this way.

  6. #6
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    Neither conform to the model, broken record at this point though.

    I'd find a new trainer. Not because he had you do the wrong thing to start, but because of unwillingness to learn and change it. Several weeks is far too long to be arguing over something like deadlift form. At least you have sought out other input, which is what your trainer should have done (assuming he didn't, if he did and still insists on form 1 that is all the more reason to drop him).

  7. #7
    Brodie Butland is offline Starting Strength Coach
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dujin View Post
    Neither conform to the model, broken record at this point though.

    I'd find a new trainer. Not because he had you do the wrong thing to start, but because of unwillingness to learn and change it. Several weeks is far too long to be arguing over something like deadlift form. At least you have sought out other input, which is what your trainer should have done (assuming he didn't, if he did and still insists on form 1 that is all the more reason to drop him).
    This is true also. It's impossible to do Starting Strength with someone who doesn't understand or can't apply the model we use. I'm not saying we're right and trainer dude is wrong (though I do believe that), but if your goal is A and your coach's goal is B, it just won't work. That's true in every training context, not just this one.

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    Obviously follow Adam's advice the: 5 step setup works like magic, and you don't have to overthink anything.

    So just do that, and don't listen to what I'm about to ask. Brodie/Adam I know a lot of people (from YouTube) that disagree with having shoulders over the bar: which is essentially what the 5 steps creates for pretty much everybody? Not looking for you to bash anyone, but a lot of respectable powerlifters don't agree with that. I assume you don't necessarily agree with this idea, so I'm just looking to know why. Here's a guy (John Cauchi) that explains it:

    DEADLIFT: Correcting your start position - YouTube

    If you don't bother to listen: Basically he says to shift the weight backwards onto your heels and you'll get a better deadlift starting position with the shoulders just over the bar.
    Last edited by SSDino; 04-29-2017 at 09:45 AM. Reason: spelling

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    Quote Originally Posted by SSDino View Post
    Obviously follow Adam's advice the: 5 step setup works like magic, and you don't have to overthink anything.

    So just do that, and don't listen to what I'm about to ask. Brodie/Adam I know a lot of people (from YouTube) that disagree with having shoulders over the bar: which is essentially what the 5 steps creates for pretty much everybody? Not looking for you to bash anyone, but a lot of respectable powerlifters don't agree with that. I assume you don't necessarily agree with this idea, so I'm just looking to know why. Here's a guy (John Cauchi) that explains it:

    DEADLIFT: Correcting your start position - YouTube

    If you don't bother to listen: Basically he says to shift the weight backwards onto your heels and you'll get a better deadlift starting position with the shoulders just over the bar.
    I have a few observations from this video.

    1. He is comparing weight on the toes to weight on the heels.

    2. He doesn't demonstrate his method with a heavy load. I would bet the bar position and shoulder position correct to be over mid-foot when a heavy weight is pulled.

  10. #10
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    starting strength coach development program
    Appreciate the actionable response. I will be posting an update using this technique here in the next week or two.

    This forum is a phenomenal tool for lifters trying to learn proper form.

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