Deadlift set up advice

[nkupianist]

Hi,
Quick stats/background: Male, 5'7", 30 yrs old. Currently 185 lbs BW
Current approx. 1RMs: SQ: 315, B: 305, PR: 185, DL: 340 (if maxes look strange, I was already benching above 250 when I began SS)

When I was doing my Novice LP, I never fully nailed the SS set up - my hips would drop more than recommended during "chest up" portion, or I'd pull slightly rounded on the reps where the hips stayed up where they belong. In the event that I do manage to keep my hips high with a flat enough back, it's nearly always at a submaximal weight, in which I partially budge the weight off the floor during the "chest up" portion of the lift, making the actual pull more of a very low block pull. This obviously isn't feasible at heavy weights, which end up being round - if I intentionally load more on the bar than I'm able to pull (or budge off the floor during set up), I'm unable to get neutral doing a set-up only.

Starting a couple months ago, after letting this go for some time, I began really focusing on the problem. I saw the SSC I'd worked with on squats in the past with this particular problem as the focus. With a lot of "air RDLs" with a mirror with an aim of getting as low as possible with a neutral spine both before lifting and on off days, the set up has improved quite a bit. With that said, when I try to follow the SS set up exactly, I still don't get my back into quite enough extension to feel safe pulling. While working on this, I've been holding down my already unimpressive pull weights to do technique work. Realizing how indefinite this cycle could become, I've started a HLM program in which I'm going to let my hips get where they must to get my spine neutral when pulling heavy, with lighter strict sets after in which I focus very hard on high hips and extensive "chest squeeze" (without allowing myself to "float" the bar above the ground during set up). I realize this isn't optimal, but it's a matter of wanting to be safe and work on form but not wanting to continue not increasing my pull in the mean time. I'll violate the usual rule and post more than one video to illustrate a couple things.

First, this is a video I took from the recommended angle for form checks - looks about neutral from that angle based on wrinkles in shirt.
Deadlifts - 7.24 - YouTube

However, when viewed from the side, you'll see the flexion thing that I have going on - middle of back.
Deadift - YouTube

For reference, here is a very extreme example of what I tend to do with weights that are heavier for me - this is lower-hipped than usual, but illustrates the tendency well. At :12.
Press 185 PR deadlift 330 - YouTube

I welcome all set up related advice.
Thanks,
Scott

[Royce Nichols]

Your first two pulls looked fine. Add a little bit of weight from there. 5 or ten pounds at a time. I remember seeing your first pull in the SSC Q&A. I think Coach Wolf commented on it. Listen to what he said. Perfect is the enemy of good. You dropped your hips in the last one way too much. Some useful cues for chest up and lumbar extension:

1. squeeze chest through your arms
2. show your nipples to the front wall
3. Show your ass to the back wall.

[nkupianist]

Your first two pulls looked fine. Add a little bit of weight from there. 5 or ten pounds at a time. I remember seeing your first pull in the SSC Q&A. I think Coach Wolf commented on it. Listen to what he said. Perfect is the enemy of good. You dropped your hips in the last one way too much. Some useful cues for chest up and lumbar extension:

1. squeeze chest through your arms
2. show your nipples to the front wall
3. Show your ass to the back wall.

Ok thanks - I guess the short answer is to keep plugging away at the extension cues and continue trying all of them. Yeah, I'm working on all the Wolf advice, which was mainly related to leg drive during the pull - I just am struggling with squeezing this last darn bit of mid-back flexion out during set up.
Thanks
Scott

[Royce Nichols]

I know how you feel man. But don't get into the mindset of paralysis by analysis. They certainly looked good enough to add weight to the bar.

[nkupianist]

Yeah fair enough. Actually, upon going back and watching a video late in my LP, when I was pulling in the lower 300s for reps (which I can still admittedly pull, as you pointed out with respect to not stalling on subpar weights), toward the end of LP, they were just about good - less flexion than now I'd say. See below if interested. Perhaps, as you said, this was just a result of doing the thing and not overanalyzing while raising the weight incrementally. Very strange how much they've regressed since then - I over-bulked bigtime for my age and starting weight on SS and lost some weight after LP - ever since then, my pulls have been way more off than before.

Thanks again.

Deadlift 310 1 x 5 11.4.16 - YouTube

[Royce Nichols]

Yeah, those pulls looked good man. Just try and replicate those setups without having to stand up each rep. That takes a lot of energy out of you, as I'm sure you figured out. OK, well now that you have lost the weight, I would gain some weight a little bit more intelligently and just LP your DL again until that doesn't work.

[nkupianist]

Haha, yeah, the standing up was mainly because I was adjusting to hook grip - it was more of a reaction to pain than a conscious movement. Not something I normally do.
Yep, got down to a low of 176 in April and slowly have crept back up to 185. Actually tracking nutrition this time around, so not as worried about needlessly ballooning up.

Thanks again for tips.

[nkupianist]

Royce,

I listened to your advice - until a stall or serious form breakdown, I'm pulling 3x a week with an LP progression and leaving all the other lifts on my HLM schedule. You were right - I'll get a lot more out of having to improve form against heavier loads than futzing.

Last night actually were some of the best set ups I've done in the recent future. 260 1 x 5, followed by a 315 single, which to my eye actually looked pretty good. Still working on getting that little bit of flexion on some reps to straighten out, and working on my pull sequence as Wolf suggested.

8.2.17 workout - YouTube

[Satch12879]

You're smashing into your knees on the descent. Lean over at the waist first and close your knees once the bar passes them.

[nkupianist]

You're smashing into your knees on the descent. Lean over at the waist first and close your knees once the bar passes them.

Thanks - yeah, I know, working on it. Definitely regret it the day after when my knees are banged up. Appreciate the feedback.