Deadlift is stuck and weak / Squat is still going and strong?

[irongeek]

I had a helluva time with deadlifts. Like you, my squat took off nicely, but during LP my deadlift flatlined pretty quickly. It wasn't until I started deadlifting more frequently that I started seeing good progress.
If you're still on an LP, alternate Heavy deadlift days (1 set of 5) with medium deadlifts (3 sets of 5 at perhaps 75% of est 1RM). So, for you, it would look something like this:

Week A
Monday: Heavy DL: 350 x 5
Wed: Med DL: 300 x 5 x 3
Fri: Heavy DL: 355 x 5

Week B:
Monday: Med DL: 305 x 5 x 3
Wed: Heavy DL: 360 x 5
Fri: Med DL: 310 x 5 x 3

If the medium day deadlifts are too easy, then perhaps stand on a mat to give a 1-2" deficit. Snatch grip deadlifts are also great on medium day.
This may work for a while on LP. If heavy deadlifts become too much twice a week (mon/fri), then maybe do medium deadlifts on monday, heavy dls on friday, and chins on wednesday.
This is a good way to transition into intermediate programming (HLM) as well.

Anyway, this kind of programming got my deadlift moving again. Best luck.

[phonics]

Last update for this thread. Long story short: Squats were too heavy. DL is ok and moving somewhat now.

SQUATS:
I should have come to grips with it earlier, but my squat was just too heavy for a proper low bar back angle. Duh.

I moved the bar right under the spine of the scapula (as it was too low before) and am now (I believe) squatting with a proper back angle. The vids below show that I still need some work on narrowing the stance a bit and re flexing out of the hole better instead of holding it, but the back angle is a game changer. I now feel the knees being stopped by the hammies and finally feel the setup for the tight stretch reflex instead of loosely bouncing off my calves/hams.

My confusion in attempting the proper back angle came from trying to bend over too early from the top down instead of pushing my ass all the way back after setting my knees just behind the toes. (I.e. Don't get shit on your shoes) I still highly recommend the TUBOW video above, but those with a longer back will have to cut it short of the toes when setting the knees.

I'm sure it still looks a little wobbly, but the weight feels so light now. I might get rid of that horse mat and see what happens. Different shoes helped a little. (fit for the clown wearing them.)

last warmup/workset @285lbs x 5 : 20170728_SQ285.mp4 - Google Drive
2nd workset @ 295lbs x 6 : 20170728_SQ295.mp4 - Google Drive

DEADLIFTS:
I'm giving the LightVol/Heavy DLs a couple of more weeks. It is already helping me off of the floor, but I still need to get my upper back up to speed with my lower body. (large rabbit hole of an issue with my rows and an impinged nerve, but that's another story.) The DL now comes off of the floor faster and easier with decent back strength for the first 3 reps, but by the 5th I look like the scared cat in the upper back. Part of it is probably not taking the time to set up perfectly, but there is a failure of back strength for sure on those last reps. Understand, this is still better than last week's performance at the same 357.5lbs.

Any thoughts on progressing with 2x3 instead of 1x5 on the heavy day for deadlifts?

[Jeff Illingworth]

Nice improvement! These are light years better than the last batch you posted. I agree, you can probably narrow your stance just a little bit more. In the set shot from the side, you need to let your knees come a little bit more forward - your shin is too vertical (lifting shoes, I think, help with this a bit). In the other set, you get a little soft at the bottom - you can see your low back let go on some reps and your knees slide forward in the hole sometimes. Those, though, are more concentration issues than anything else. Again, really nice improvements!

For deadlifts, go ahead and give 2x3 a shot for your intensity/heavy day. Again, you'll know if it's working or not based on whether or not you're able to add weight to the bar on a regular basis. You can also go for a full blown heavy, light, medium deal with the deadlifts. Deadlift heavy every third workout, and on the other two alternate with lower weight more volume deadlifts and heavy rows or very strict form RDLs or SDLs. Regardless, whatever you do, give it a few weeks to see how things progress. It can be tempting to not run a program long enough to see how it works.

[phonics]

Great to hear Jeff. I really appreciate the truth and advice. Probably saved me a knee or two.

Thanks again.

[irongeek]

2x3 sounds like a good plan for now. Please don't do what I did to myself. Don't go in and try to grind out 5 (or 2x3) of the hardest reps you've ever had to grind out in the deadlift only to fail the last rep or 2, and then repeat it the next week. It kills confidence and is a recipe for injury. When things even start to get like that, add a medium day and titrate up some volume at a lower weight. Your deadlift will make progress - 350 is just the beginning for you!

[phonics]

Thanks irongeek for the heads up and perspective.

This is exactly where I find myself on reps 4 and 5 the last couple of heavy sessions. I definitely agree that this not where I want to be on a regular basis. I'll stick with 3x5 Mon /2x3 Fri with rows in between for a while until I get my shoulder imbalance under control.

best,
Nic

[phonics]

Quick update on the deadlift.

I was doubtful how it would go still being weakened from a 2 day stomach flu, but I am blown away by just how easy 360 flew up this morning. I stopped after 3 for my first set (2x3), but I should have tried to pull all 5 as the 2nd set of 3 flew up as well. I will likely run back to 1x5 eventually, but I really like 2x3 for now.

There are quite a few factors involved, but I give much of the credit to the 3x5 volume work. It not only helped to train my back (in very little time), but gave me more reps to perfect my form instead of relying on just warmups to get it right.

I figured some stuff out that may be just common sense to others, but here they are:
- For some reason I was really squeezing my hips flexors hard before and during the pull as an incorrect cue for setting and keeping the lower back in extension (think pulling the hips down and into the bar) which is, of course, the antagonist to hip extension. Now I release the hip flexor just before the pull and the bar practically comes off the floor by itself.
- Some of the upper back rounding before may have come from this last point, but also from me wanting to close the distance (horizontally) from my shoulders to the bar instead of staying out in front of the bar enough for my longer torso. I'm still working on keeping the bar on my legs the whole time, but it still feels much easier on my back than previous attempts at this we.
- Now that my squat form actually uses the back it is definitely rubbing off on the deadlift.

Thanks again everyone.