Off day warmup sets

[Cheesepuff]

As an older lifter with some back and knee injury history, I initially struggled with the squat.

One thing I did that helped my "all too frequent" back tweaks (typically non-lifting related) was to do a warmup set with just the bar. I decided to just do these every morning, at first 45x5. My rack is in my garage and it became a morning ritual.

As my squat improved from 0 to 220x5x3 the off day changed to 75x3 as a little weight up volume down seemed in order for this 62 yo. (same as my initial warmup sets for the squat, also slightly off script)

It seemed to me that this additional chance to work on the movement, which I had been unable to do for 40 years really helped.

I've begun rotating in my overhead press 45x3 alternating with my Bench 75x3.

It seems my shoulders are less sore, (didn't notice until the pain went away LOL), and oddly this has made me feel better about my squats (my main goal). So it at least feels like things are headed in the right direction.

Is a daily warmup set for squat and a press a stupid thing to do?

To start with, the squat was the most uncomfortable for me. I'm sure I would have claimed I didn't have "range of motion" but my right leg was just really weak. I also struggle with what I'd call work capacity. So I spread my main lifts over 4 days (instead of 2). Sully pointed out that something was wrong with my shoulder (from across the room lol), when I was squatting at his gym, saying I'll bet you have problems with the press. (then later, he mentioned the bench too)

Now my squats feel good, though I still use a bungie as a depth indicator. And I'm trying to make the press and bench feel more like the natural movements they should be. It seems like the extra daily warm ups will help. Hopefully they will not detract too much from progress.

I prioritize my lifts 1. Squat 2. Dead Lift 3. other (aka press & bench). I'm much more consistent at getting my squats and deads.

But I've read enough to know "what feels right" and "what is right" are very often not the same.

[Suwannee Dave]

The whole thing about older lifters (by that I mean over 60) is that it is very individual. You have to be willing to experiment and listen to your body. Cookie cutter programming generally does not work for us. I think you are on the right track.

[neilc1]

it would seem those off day warm ups are just a keepening of the loosening,
you're not moving any weight that should compromise the stress recovery cycle,
it's just an off day stretch, or yoga, or walk around the bock,
keeping blood flow in there kinda like the Star recovery routine,
just don't go rep crazy either,
5 or 10 and away we go

[carson]

I received quite a rousing reprimand from people in various parts of the country for doing too many squats on off days. There's only so much cartilage and ligaments in those old knees, don't you know. A few are good but not 45.

[Cheesepuff]

Excellent points. I will monitor "total reps / week" very closely. Watching for both joint pain and over training symptoms.

I guess it goes without saying (but I'll say it anyway) that when you go off script, you introduce risks that would have been accounted for in the program as written.

That being said, 3 reps a day on off days is not a lot of reps. Initial warmup sets are not unduly heavy. Being more active is better than being less active. My goal here, beyond helping my back feel better, is to improve my work capacity. I've been limited to a single heavy set per day. I'd like to get to a place where I can do the legit programming, and not fail on warmup sets on the second lift. Other stuff I've tried.
- Improving my sleep duration/quality
- Reducing walking on off days
- Increasing walking on off days
- HIIT on Airdyne
- deleting HIIT on Airdyne
- Eating better
- adding protein powder
- adding Creotine Monohydrate

FAILED EFFORT
- Reducing stress (was worth a shot but I'm not claiming victory here)

For what it's worth, my knees feel better than they have in at least 30 years. So I'm not complaining at all. I'm doing far better than I have any right to be doing. TYMR. It just seems like I need something to get me to a point where my reaction to 'normal' programming is more typical. (after doing a PR set of Squats, I should be able to make a legit run at the Dead lift... and not fail on warmups)

Time always tells on these "one off" attempts. Thank you for your support, and I will report back with a win/lose/draw assessment.

[tallison]

Excellent points. I will monitor "total reps / week" very closely. Watching for both joint pain and over training symptoms.

I guess it goes without saying (but I'll say it anyway) that when you go off script, you introduce risks that would have been accounted for in the program as written.

That being said, 3 reps a day on off days is not a lot of reps. Initial warmup sets are not unduly heavy. Being more active is better than being less active. My goal here, beyond helping my back feel better, is to improve my work capacity. I've been limited to a single heavy set per day. I'd like to get to a place where I can do the legit programming, and not fail on warmup sets on the second lift. Other stuff I've tried.
- Improving my sleep duration/quality
- Reducing walking on off days
- Increasing walking on off days
- HIIT on Airdyne
- deleting HIIT on Airdyne
- Eating better
- adding protein powder
- adding Creotine Monohydrate

FAILED EFFORT
- Reducing stress (was worth a shot but I'm not claiming victory here)

For what it's worth, my knees feel better than they have in at least 30 years. So I'm not complaining at all. I'm doing far better than I have any right to be doing. TYMR. It just seems like I need something to get me to a point where my reaction to 'normal' programming is more typical. (after doing a PR set of Squats, I should be able to make a legit run at the Dead lift... and not fail on warmups)

Time always tells on these "one off" attempts. Thank you for your support, and I will report back with a win/lose/draw assessment.

Looks to me like you are being quite systematic about this stuff and I'm quite curious about your other results as well -- what did adding in HIIT do, for example? I know it is roundly counseled against when it comes to the novice lp, but it is hard to resist when one is interested in removing a bit of the gut... I honestly can't see any argument against doing the lifts at initial warm up weights on off days to practice form, but I am not an SSC. If no one who is answers you here, you might try posting the question to the Staff Coaches sub-forum. To my mind this is just skills practice and at a light weight (assuming you are normally lifting much more than just the bar) really shouldn't interfere. But I'm not basing that opinion on the experience of doing it myself (I've often contemplated it, but don't have the equipment at home) or training a bunch of folks, so big grain of salt, there.

[Cheesepuff]

Thanks for the feedback!!!

Tallison: to your questions, with some context.

Age: 62
Weight at start: 280 (quite fluffy)
Current weight: 269 (people don't screw with me)
Height: 6' 2"
Start date: 4/2016 * although was unable to "really do squats until 7/2016, for a variety of special snowflake issues. (aka they made me fall down... now they don't)

Initial lift / 5RM now / off day x3
Squat: 0 ** / 225 / 75
Dead Lift: 115 / 265 / 135
Press 45 / 82.5 / 45
Bench 85 / 120 / 75 ***

** I guess I could have squatted with about 50 to 70 pounds of assist
*** sort of heavy for off days but the bench often gets left out on my workouts
I started with just the squat on off days, for a couple weeks, then jumped to daily. Then added the other movements 3 days ago. So I'll be watching tonight's heavy squat set with unusual interest.

Comments on "changes", I've made over time have in each case reinforced what Rip has said. My background pre-Starting Strength was a barely walking. I used custom trekking poles capable of bearing a great deal of weight. I spent averaged 7 to 9 hours a week doing "strenious walking". More often than not, soaked with sweat after 45 minutes. I thought I'd continue this "along with" Starting Strength, as I had not read very far yet.

This resulted in getting "over-training symptoms", so I made this change.
- Reducing walking on off days
result: Got back to making my PR lifts regularly.

Read on in the books, oh... recovery matters.
- Improving my sleep duration/quality
result: felt better during / after workouts, made gains more solid

Got cocky and thought my better sleep / nutrition would carry me through a little more walking.
- Increasing walking on off days
result: began to stall in less than a week, felt like over training symptoms were imminent. Decided to "un-make this mistake"

Well, guys on the forum are doing this, maybe if I do this in moderation. 15 sec hard / 45 sec easy on Airdyne only 5 times 3x per week
- HIIT on Airdyne
Was fine for about a week or two when my over training symptoms started and my lifts started stalling.

... so I
- deleting HIIT on Airdyne
In a couple days, program was back on track.

Noted above, and a more gradual blend in. Started cooking whole chickens (grilled or baked), later slow cooker with rice from rice cooker.
- Eating better
I now notice that if I have more than 2 drinks it affects my recovery adversely, probably due to poor sleep.

I had delayed adding that 4th meal, until after my trip to Sully's squat seminar.
- adding protein powder
Boom, the quickest improvement, helped recovery immediately, felt stronger "suddenly". Went every day for a while but recently dropped on "off days". Happy with this.

More reading...
- adding Creotine Monohydrate
Took about a week to notice. Did not preload just started at 5mg/day as prescribed. Works good, gained 5 lbs, as expected in a week. Overcame a stall with this.

OPINION:
As a masters lifter, any auxiliary workouts you do will affect your recovery. So watch volume carefully.
I'm trying to wiggle in a little more work capacity over time with as little detriment to my current recovery possible.
I also walk some, but don't go crazy like I once did, and now I don't need weight bearing trekking poles.

I'm in this for the long term. In this phase, based on how I assess my potential, I'm not progressing as fast as I should, due to YNDTP.

I should improve:
- Stress management
- Sleep
- Diet
- Probably other stuff

I'm really not that active so, it does seem like I should do something besides sitting at a computer all day and an occasional walk at lunch. This workout is a lot quicker than my previously customary 8 minutes of Airdyne in the morning. I also ride my Airdyne between sets, but slowly. (40 rpm)

[Cheesepuff]

I received quite a rousing reprimand from people in various parts of the country for doing too many squats on off days. There's only so much cartilage and ligaments in those old knees, don't you know. A few are good but not 45.

Sorry, I meant 45 pounds for 3 reps. 45 reps... yikes!!!!! Even I know better than that!

Wednesday I had my first double PR night in quite a while. (squat & press)

I felt better during the workout. Not exactly "earth shattering" evidence, but the right direction anyway.

I thought I would stay with this daily warm up for a while, then consider upping the weight or reps... probably weight. No hurry though.

I also think I can go back to a more normal 2 day a week schedule, instead of spreading each session across two days. I figure any time I can move closer to the "actual program" I will.

[Cheesepuff]

Couple days into the four movement warmup. Have been able to resume more normal programming. More energy left after the initial Squat. Happy so far, only downside was on the Bench, where I was more than 50% of my work set (too lazy to change plates, thought it would not matter). It may have contributed to a rather poor showing on that lift. So I'll reduce to the bar.

Will continue with 3 reps for a while but may eventually venture up to 5. (squat/press/bench/DL)