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Thread: squatting and running

  1. #11
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    Okay so we've got some thoughts on squat strength and distance on the table. What about likely bodyweight to be running at that speed, say for a 6' dude? Would I basically have to be under 200 lbs. to make that happen?

  2. #12
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    I really don't feel like additional squat strength is going to help much with a 3 mile run. I think the strength gains are going to help more with distances less than a mile or so. Going by personal experience, once you can comfortably rep around your body weight, any additional squat strength is going to be dead weight on a 3 mile run. If you really want an 18 minute run time, I wouldn't squat more than once a week and I'd start logging some miles. Also, I'd try to lose some more weight. We have similar frames and I was around 195 when I was at the peak of my running game.

  3. #13
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    The biggest/heaviest "runner" I know is an absolute animal of a guy who weighs probably 190 at 6'1". Doesn't squat much, but he could run 3 miles in sub-20 minutes any day of the week.

    My hunch is that sub-200 would be necessary for 3 6-minutes miles.

    Put another way - I'm flat out not aware of any 6 foot 200lb guys who can do a sub-20 5K.

  4. #14
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    I had a big long answer to type, but fuck it. The short answer is that running middle or long distances does not require much strength and high level runners have enough strength already. The load on the quads and the range of motion used in distance running are both small. Since you asked about 18 minute 3 milers, we are talking about high level runners. I would say that unless there is an existing injury or strength imbalance (because the hams do not get much work while running) there is no bennefit for a high level middle distance runner to squat or do any real strength training. Distance running is not strength limited, it is lactate/VO2 max limited. The energy pathways are not the same and training one will not help the other. And running at a high level, doing anything at a high level, requires focused training.

    For the average person that wants to improve from a 28:00 to 26:00 5K... if you run trails or XC there may be some bennefit in having additional strength for stability reasons, so squatting can help and you most likely need to squat for injury prevention. The problem is structuring a program that would provide the training bennefit of squatting while not taking up training time or recovery ability that should be used for running.
    I've thought about this quite a bit and have been experimenting on myself, some conclusions I have come to have:
    1. Effective strength training will negatively impact run training volume and recovery.
    2. You could squat very lite weights for injury prevention, but not get stronger or better at running. You would get more bennefit from just running hills.
    3. The process of getting stronger in the off season and then getting back into running shape is unproductive. You work hard for the gains and then sacrifice them, ending up where you started.
    4. You can get stronger and faster, but it is a slow process.
    5. I am a lot faster at a lower bodyweight/lower squat than I am heavier with a bigger squat. This is due to a few factors:
    - Extra body weight requires more effort to move
    - The training effort to get a 2xBW squat takes away from running
    - At 40, I am more prone to injury when lifting heavy and running at a higher bodyweight

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by D_51 View Post
    I had a big long answer to type, but fuck it. The short answer is that running middle or long distances does not require much strength and high level runners have enough strength already. The load on the quads and the range of motion used in distance running are both small. Since you asked about 18 minute 3 milers, we are talking about high level runners. I would say that unless there is an existing injury or strength imbalance (because the hams do not get much work while running) there is no bennefit for a high level middle distance runner to squat or do any real strength training. Distance running is not strength limited, it is lactate/VO2 max limited. The energy pathways are not the same and training one will not help the other. And running at a high level, doing anything at a high level, requires focused training.

    For the average person that wants to improve from a 28:00 to 26:00 5K... if you run trails or XC there may be some bennefit in having additional strength for stability reasons, so squatting can help and you most likely need to squat for injury prevention. The problem is structuring a program that would provide the training bennefit of squatting while not taking up training time or recovery ability that should be used for running.
    I've thought about this quite a bit and have been experimenting on myself, some conclusions I have come to have:
    1. Effective strength training will negatively impact run training volume and recovery.
    2. You could squat very lite weights for injury prevention, but not get stronger or better at running. You would get more bennefit from just running hills.
    3. The process of getting stronger in the off season and then getting back into running shape is unproductive. You work hard for the gains and then sacrifice them, ending up where you started.
    4. You can get stronger and faster, but it is a slow process.
    5. I am a lot faster at a lower bodyweight/lower squat than I am heavier with a bigger squat. This is due to a few factors:
    - Extra body weight requires more effort to move
    - The training effort to get a 2xBW squat takes away from running
    - At 40, I am more prone to injury when lifting heavy and running at a higher bodyweight
    Very well said. This has been my experience as well.

  6. #16
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    Also +1 on that reply. Good stuff.

  7. #17
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    Thanks for the very helpful replies. Snyder, I think you're right about the target weight. I read the endurance chapter in FIT and have a plan together now.

  8. #18
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    I run a 5k on 2 of my off days, but my squat numbers are low. Just hit 265x5x3. I'm 6'0" 173. As long as I eat enough, recovery isn't really a problem. I started LP with a dumb routine running 25k a week and still progressed as long as I ate enough. Look at NFL football players; though many are genetic freaks, some aren't and they can be quick/fast at very big sizes. I think you can meet your goal, but it will take exceeding the squat goal you have probably to lose weight and try to maintain lifts. Look at what body builders can do; guys that look like they weigh 200 lbs can weigh 160. I'm sure if you built up the muscle and then lost the BF, you'd be able to meet your goal. It just takes discipline.

  9. #19
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    There was this thread by william_morris217 in Rip's Q&A forum:
    http://startingstrength.com/resource...ad.php?t=26717

  10. #20
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    starting strength coach development program
    Thanks doods. Sorry to keep polluting this board with running stuff, but does anyone know whether there is a Practical Programming of the running/endurance world? There's the endurance chapter in FIT, but I'm interested in something more in depth.

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