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Thread: squatting and running

  1. #1
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    Default squatting and running

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    If one's goal is to run 3 miles in 18 minutes, where is the point of diminishing marginal returns in terms of squat strength?

    Do college cross country runners squat? Heavy? If not, does anyone think it would do them any good?

    I realize this depends to a great extent on the individual, but I'm curious to hear people's opinions and experience.

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    Man, this thread was a real hit.

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    Too much exciting shit going on elsewhere. Timing is important.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronan the Barbarian View Post
    Man, this thread was a real hit.
    IDK if there's a tradeoff in terms of (specifically) 3-mile speed Vs. squat strength.

    There certainly IS a tradeoff between endurance training volume on running Vs. squats.

    Separate your high mileage training from your strength training on legs, put a rest day between them if you can, and add volume slowly. IME you don't need a lot of volume to increase 3-mile speed, but you will need intensity, and it will impact recovery from squatting and will impact your squat RM if you aren't fully recovered from the previous running session.

    Xcountry and track runners do weights depending upon their S&C coach. I've seen a lot of programming that does squats, mostly in the form of doing circuit-type training for weights for the runners. Seen some coaches that program zero weights for the long-distance track guys and xcountry.

    If the HS or college is running BFS, then ALL their athletes (regardless of sport) are squatting and benching, heavy, 2-3x weekly, in addition to cleans and deads and auxiliary lifts, and they have some suggested auxiliaries for xcountry but I don't have the book with me right now.

  5. #5
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    This is not perfectly relevant, but I'll share my experience. A triathlete buddy challenged me to do a Tough Mudder with him (12-mile obstacle course - I heard someone describe it as "like a Warrior Dash, but for men").

    I ran 3-4 miles twice a week, did one sprint day every couple of weeks, and squatted about once every two weeks (I was strength training twice a week, so one press day, and alternating deadlift and squat-focused days).

    Like I said, not optimal on either front, but hey, work and family life were stressful at that point too.

    My squat was somewhere in the 350lbs for 3x5 when I started running. I was messing around too much with rep schemes to be sure, but I'm guessing I would have been in the 330lb range by the day of the event. My hunch is that depending on the person, there won't be any negative carryover until you're squatting over double bodyweight, assuming your bodyweight is reasonable for someone who wants to run that distance that fast (3 miles in 18 minutes).

    I was 5'11" and 185lbs on event day. 1RM would have been somewhere around double bodyweight, down from a previous 1RM of about 425.

    If I was a cross-country runner, squats would have a big place in my program. But I'd hate to try to drive my squat up to that double bodyweight mark WHILE I was doing a lot of running. My experience tells me that you'd be better off driving strength up in the offseason and then trying like hell to hold on to that strength during running season.

  6. #6
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    I would think somewhere between 315 and 405 (I initially thought the former and have been talking myself towards the latter). Beyond 405 I reckon you're taking too much training time away from running.

  7. #7
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    I'm a long time runner, marathons mostly. I love what lifting has done for my hill climbing and trail running. 6 minute miles on the other hand will require a lot of specific training geared for running and little or no weight training in my opinion.

  8. #8
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    My son runs NCAA cross country/track at a large university. The coaches definitely do not train squats for the distance and middle distance runners. Actually they do very little strength work at all except for core and the occassional pullup, but that's about it. I often think that some strength training would help him get faster. Maybe we'll experiment over the summer.

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    Yo bro-dawgs, I appreciate the replies. This is all good info.

  10. #10
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    starting strength coach development program
    Well I ran xc for a college team in fall 2010, and "strength training" consisted of copious situps, planks, medicine ball tossing, and single leg body weight squats. However, the coach did not know his shit, and most of us ran our worst races by the end of the season due to overtraining/horrible periodization.
    IMO if you want to run 6 minute miles, you oughtta try to run 4-5 times per week. 2 hard runs, 2 easy runs, and maybe 1 "long and easy"/general volume run. More than that is totally unnecessary. Perhaps you could try 5/3/1? I'm not sure what your current stats are, but if your pushing a 2x bodyweight 1 rep max, what's the rush in terms of gains?
    You could do your hard runs on lower body days, and higher volume stuff the day after. I would bet the "I'm not doing jack shit" template for lower body days with conditioning prioritized could maintain or even add a little to your squat, and bring up your running capabilities on a short term basis (like 3-4 cycles). Once you are satisfied with your running you could go back to a higher volume of lifting with nothing lost. Of course this depends on what you want to prioritize in your training, but 6 minute miles and 2 "heavy" squat sessions per week could not coexist for most people.

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