Better results pressing after a Clean (Power) than using a rack.

[Serack]

TL;DR: Last week I tried to press from the rack for the first time after 2 months of Power Cleaning the weight before each set and I had to drop 10# off the bar before I could press it at all.

A couple months ago all the racks were occupied at my gym when it came time to do my Press, so I just PC'd it off the floor for my 3 sets of 3. I only have limited exposure to PC's and my form at the rack probably leaves something to be desired (I essentially rack it in the Press start position, imagine that), but doing this was actually quite satisfying. Adding to that satisfaction, was some people in the gym commenting the next day about being impressed by the display, since it was my first time working with 135 for the press.

The thing is, I do my press the day after DL, and in addition to steady progression for the press meaning progressively heavier PC's for them, my DL was getting intense, and 2 weeks ago I didn't quite get all my reps in either. So last week (after finally hitting 315x5 on DL the day before, which I'll add totally wiped me out) I tried to press from the rack at the 147.5 I missed the week before and couldn't lift it period. 137.5 went up 3x but then 6 minutes later I couldn't Press that weight either...

I've since decided to switch the press to a different day further from my DL, and PC'd it again. This time I still missed some reps at 147.5x2,3,1 but did much better than Wednesday's complete failure... It is possible that the intensity of Tuesday's DL's set me up for Wednesday's Press failure, but Bench was no problem at all (PR at 205x5 right before the Press failure)

So does anyone else have similar experience with better results Pressing if PCing it first?

[poser]

I've never compared the two analytically, but I am not surprised at the results.

When I press off the rack, the bar, once loaded onto my frame, usually feels intimidatingly heavy for my work set. By comparison, a well executed PC is very gratuitous and a big confidence booster. Anytime I execute a clean with a weight >135#, I feel "strong." So, could be the case that throwing that bar up there is not quite the mental "shock" to your frame that unloading from the rack is. It's less intimidating since you just threw the bar into the air and caught it. Could even be a bit of an adrenaline and/or endorphin release just from the satisfaction of performing a clean. Could also be the extra testosterone associated with the "alphaness" of performing a clean and press in a room full of subordinate bros [emoji106]

[Adam Skillin]

TL;DR: Last week I tried to press from the rack for the first time after 2 months of Power Cleaning the weight before each set and I had to drop 10# off the bar before I could press it at all.

A couple months ago all the racks were occupied at my gym when it came time to do my Press, so I just PC'd it off the floor for my 3 sets of 3. I only have limited exposure to PC's and my form at the rack probably leaves something to be desired (I essentially rack it in the Press start position, imagine that), but doing this was actually quite satisfying. Adding to that satisfaction, was some people in the gym commenting the next day about being impressed by the display, since it was my first time working with 135 for the press.

The thing is, I do my press the day after DL, and in addition to steady progression for the press meaning progressively heavier PC's for them, my DL was getting intense, and 2 weeks ago I didn't quite get all my reps in either. So last week (after finally hitting 315x5 on DL the day before, which I'll add totally wiped me out) I tried to press from the rack at the 147.5 I missed the week before and couldn't lift it period. 137.5 went up 3x but then 6 minutes later I couldn't Press that weight either...

I've since decided to switch the press to a different day further from my DL, and PC'd it again. This time I still missed some reps at 147.5x2,3,1 but did much better than Wednesday's complete failure... It is possible that the intensity of Tuesday's DL's set me up for Wednesday's Press failure, but Bench was no problem at all (PR at 205x5 right before the Press failure)

So does anyone else have similar experience with better results Pressing if PCing it first?

Are you standing up straight after the power clean before you do the first rep, being sure not to use the knee extension to turn it into a push press? Do you press 1.0 or 2.0?

[Meshuggah]

My press always feels stronger if I clean the bar instead of taking it out of the rack.

[Adam Skillin]

Inline with poser's idea, and what Adam might be hinting at (not sure) is that when you're setting up for the OHP you're not fully braced from head to toe. IOW, you might be unracking the bar "soft" and not really getting tight before you press.

I'm not hinting anything. Just wondering if he might be cheating the first press of each set from the clean by using momentum from standing all the way up to get the bar in motion, making it a shallow thruster.

[Serack]

Are you standing up straight after the power clean before you do the first rep, being sure not to use the knee extension to turn it into a push press?

Yes, my knees are rigid. Although my back is likely arched to some extent at some point in the movement. I have a co-worker with some lingering shoulder injuries that C&J's 185 and expressed his envy when he watched me Press 145 without any leg involvement.

Do you press 1.0 or 2.0?

The Olympic Press as described by Bill Starr and usually referred as Press 2.0 here is too overly complicated a movement as described for my non athletic, uncoordinated, uncoached self to consider mastering. Mostly I just try to get the fucking weight extended above my head without bending my knees, because I intend for it to be an upper body exercise rather than a push press. The hip and back undulations described by Mr. Starr sound too much like involving the lower body for my comfort, thus reinforcing my ignorant desire to keep it simple.

Inline with poser's idea, and what Adam might be hinting at (not sure) is that when you're setting up for the OHP you're not fully braced from head to toe. IOW, you might be unracking the bar "soft" and not really getting tight before you press.

This is entirely possible (even likely). In the past, (I.E. last year, before I started PCing it, and before a holiday break) when I approached 130 and it got heavy, my... core stability did seem to be a limiting factor, and a "helpful" individual in the gym Wednesday tried to suggest that I allow one foot to step back for stability when seeing my back arch during the failed attempts.

[Serack]

I'm not hinting anything. Just wondering if he might be cheating the first press of each set from the clean by using momentum from standing all the way up to get the bar in motion, making it a shallow thruster.

I stop and take a breath after the PC.

[Erok]

Yep, OP, this is the case with me as well. I find that I take at least one breath after racking the clean and adjust my grip.

Also: My wife, when I first (successfully) introduced her to strength training, hated the press. She had trouble with the empty bar. Then, one day, I turn around, and see her muscle clean 75# and press it for a triple. More recently, I've got her actually LP'ing the press, up to 65 so far, but when she finishes press and warms up for the deadlift, she almost always starts by cleaning 75# and pressing for reps. There's something to be said for 'fun' movements in training.

[Tiburon]

The OHP should be stronger out of the rack.

I don't think that's true. Rip has talked about this, and though he didn't postulate a mechanism he noted that it is often the case that people can press more after a clean than out of the rack.

[Coconut Chris]

By what mechanism would a press after a power clean permit more force to be applied to the bar than when properly unracked at shoulder height?

Here's my guess why this is generally observed: power cleans cannot be racked without elbows in front of the wrists, nor held securely on the delts without moderate thoracic extension. Pressing from the rack permits the former, which prevents a vertical bar path in the immediate start of the press. This is an error when pressing from the rack, not an intrinsic property.