Do early novices need 6000 calories a day?

[I_iz_a_fatass]

But again I don't know why the skinny teenage kids need 6000 calories when they are skinny and probably can eat less and still grow

Jesus, it's because they are growing and swimming in exactly the biological soup of high testosterone and HGH to put on a ton of strength and mass with the least amount of effort in their entire lives. This shit isn't that hard to get.

[Kregna]

Jesus, it's because they are growing and swimming in exactly the biological soup of high testosterone and HGH to put on a ton of strength and mass with the least amount of effort in their entire lives. This shit isn't that hard to get.

Oh really? Are you telling me that these guys can gain a lot of strength quickly? I hadn't guessed that

Why the fuck is 6k required then instead of 4k? Can you attest to having tried, or know someone who has, eaten in the 4000s and found it not enough to complete the novice programme? We can all guess 6k will help you grow - no shit.

My point is will 4k be sufficient? I think what's not hard to get is that's my fucking question

[Clay Simczyk]

Try thinking things through logically rather than repeating the same argument. And try understanding my question before you start with your sassy shit

Why is Dave Tate relevant? Which novices need 6000 calories a day? I would argue the skinnier kids need LESS calories because they are likely skinny due to eating less in the first place. I could be wrong and some could be extremely active and need the extra calories

No I'll have a look. But again I don't know why the skinny teenage kids need 6000 calories when they are skinny and probably can eat less and still grow

How have you been able to survive this long?

[Clay Simczyk]

My point is will 4k be sufficient? I think what's not hard to get is that's my fucking question

Yes. 4K is sufficient. I don't know why Rip keeps saying 6K. He's an old, washed up, coot of a weightlifter.

[FacePalm]

Oh really? Are you telling me that these guys can gain a lot of strength quickly? I hadn't guessed that

Why the fuck is 6k required then instead of 4k? Can you attest to having tried, or know someone who has, eaten in the 4000s and found it not enough to complete the novice programme? We can all guess 6k will help you grow - no shit.

My point is will 4k be sufficient? I think what's not hard to get is that's my fucking question

I'm sure you've read that the body takes what it needs and gets rid of the rest (tries to maintain homeostasis), and for people who just can't gain weight this is probably needed to jump start the growth process.

[Kregna]

Yes. 4K is sufficient. I don't know why Rip keeps saying 6K. He's an old, washed up, coot of a weightlifter.

Oh so because Rippetoe has said it it must be true. It must be nice going through life not having to think for yourself

You know people on the board often went against the recommendation of deadlifting on volume day (Texas Method) and in the PP 3rd edition it was changed to include deadlifts on intensity day. Weird that people did things differently and ended up being adopted by the man himself (perhaps with Andy Baker's input?).

I'm sure you've read that the body takes what it needs and gets rid of the rest (tries to maintain homeostasis), and for people who just can't gain weight this is probably needed to jump start the growth process.

I agree that it is hard on the body. But is it 6k calories hard? Obviously there is an excessive amount where you are just getting fat and eating will only help so much, otherwise we'd all be eating 12k from day 1. My observation (from myself and had a guy training under me who got to 100kg 3x5 with 5kg jumps before quitting) is that 6k is not necessary, especially not to start with (and the skinny underweight males that keep getting use in the examples are only present at the START of the programme, otherwise TWNDTP).

[Elephant]

My interpretation is that a tall, underweight young man may not NEED 6k to grow, but 6k would allow him to grow a lot faster than 4k or 5k. Ie. 20 - 10 pound jumps every workout for a long time, instead of 5 or micro loading after only a few weeks.

Early in my LP I was gaining weight quite fast at 2500cals, because I started from such a low base. But I had to start microloading the presses almost right away. Might not have happend if I had been on 3500-4500 cals from the start.

Your interpretation seems exactly right, is consistent with Rip's writing and is probably obvious given some thought.

[Clay Simczyk]

It must be nice going through life not having to think for yourself

It is nice. Even though I started my LP at 40 years old and 225 pounds, I accepted that 6,000 and a gallon of milk should be consumed every day. It worked. Totally. Didn't even consider that I may not need that much, I just did it. I'm still doing it. Why wouldn't I?

But you might be different and only need 4,000 calories.

[Kregna]

Your interpretation seems exactly right, is consistent with Rip's writing and is probably obvious given some thought.

So in other words, smart people have thought about it, so it cannot be wrong

It is nice. Even though I started my LP at 40 years old and 225 pounds, I accepted that 6,000 and a gallon of milk should be consumed every day. It worked. Totally. Didn't even consider that I may not need that much, I just did it. I'm still doing it. Why wouldn't I?

But you might be different and only need 4,000 calories.

It worked for me too. But I later came back to linear progression eating FAR LESS (6-7 pints of milk a day instead of 12, 4 eggs a day instead of 12, whey protein instead of peanut butter milkshakes) and took it further than I got on my original try. In fact, took it further than a few months of TM got me to

So there's my actual experience, having done it both ways. All everyone else is saying is:

a. Rippetoe's smarter than veggieboy so must be right
b. Skinny young men need a lot of food (doesn't address whether that's 4k or 6k)
c. It's worked for me (doesn't address whether less would've worked)

Why would people want to overeat and get fat while lifting novice numbers? That's some silly shit

[Clay Simczyk]

You should post this to Rip's forum. I think a good title would be, "A Clarification?"