Another Wendler Book

[marcf]

Wendlers response to Jordan's article.

https://forums.t-nation.com/t/5-3-1-...here/227694/16

The link doesn't seem to work.

[marcf]

Worked for me on mobile safari.

The T-Nation posters are a bit witless. One dude is like, "who is Justin Fennelbaum?" It's fucking 2017, copy and paste his name into fucking google and find out he was 5th at USAPL nationals. Being obtuse on purpose is worse than being just plain dumb.

It seems to be working now. I think the site was down earlier. But yes, those tools on T-Nation are just as awful as many of the articles on the site.

Jim's response is equally stupid, and I don't care how accomplished he is. But to be so arrogant as to say he only reads and considers the writing of his peers or those above him is inane. Would any reasonable person rule out learning something from someone with lesser experience, but a different outlook or experience with things?

The more of this 5/3/1 drama has spread around, the less I like him and his work. You squatted 1,000 pounds high in a suit. Whoop dee doo. His program and most of his articles on T-Nation are relics of the broscience days.

Defenders of 5/3/1 are even worse. They're all about the mediocre results they got because they're mostly still novices, and they made some gains despite suboptimal programming. They act like the accessories and supplemental movements are what make the program great, but it's what makes the program a huge mess to me. The cycling of the core lifts don't comport with what I've learned from Practical Programming, and with what I've experienced in real life.

"But bro, you can do BBB and joker sets and first set last and these accessories and this and that..." That doesn't even sound like a program to me anymore. It sounds like what I did years ago in the gym when I didn't really know what I was doing--a free-for-all.

[marcf]

At least 1 of the strongest lifters on this site has been using 531 for years and i would not say his results are a mediocre doesn't really know what he's doing free for all.

Can you write that in a coherent, non-run-on sentence and show us that this lifter got strong using 5/3/1 and not *before* doing 5/3/1?

[Sean Herbison]

Can you write that in a coherent, non-run-on sentence and show us that this lifter got strong using 5/3/1 and not *before* doing 5/3/1?

I can get the first part for you. Here: "At least one of the strongest lifters on this site has been using 5/3/1 for years, and I would not say his results are a mediocre doesn't-really-know-what-he's-doing free-for-all."

Don't blame JC. It's not his fault he wasn't blessed enough to be born in a country where proper English is occasionally spoken.

[deeprooted]

While I found Jim's response a little weird as well when it comes to the "peers or above" thing especially, he's kept it at least somewhat professional apart from that. He could've started criticizing back just as easily which would've turned ugly for sure.

What I don't get is Rip closing the original thread though. Apart from some nimrods talking shit and being butthurt about 5/3/1 being criticized, there were some points worth discussing about the article. What bothers me more though is that it didn't have to necessarily be one of those 5/3/1 fanboys in the thread that posted the link on T-Nation. Could've been just as well somebody who found the article on google, facebook or whatever. Then what sense does it make to close a constructive discussion because somebody went to cry to Jim about the article? And even even if it was somebody from that discussion, it was bound to happen anyway that somebody would send Jim that article at some point.

[MPhelps]

Jim Wendler comes out with a statement that politely disses Jordan (Justin, Jason) after he wrote a 6 million word article that basically says 531 (aka Wendler's business) sucks. He's said it on his sub forum, he's said it on his vlogs. What do you expect? A gee wiz, "I guess this Jordan guy is right. Wow. He has a website and he's a starting strength coach. Let me take time out from getting my book published to read this."

And seriously, you don't think they were saying "Jordan who?" Because they don't know who he is?
Came in 5th at USAPL nationals...exactly.

[deeprooted]

Pretty much yeah. I've never been a big fan of 5/3/1 but I honestly think Jordan's article feels more like a draft or idea on how one could compare programs. To be fair though I think a comparison like that needs to incorporate or consider a couple more things and those alone might be tough or even impossible to objectively compare. And his assessment is pretty lengthy already.

What does leave a bitter aftertaste though are the smaller things like is how it feels rushed, saying things that have to be mistakes in word choice or even intentionally contradicting the principles discussed around here and in PP like for instance opposing views of ideal volume and frequency of deadlifting and then not explaining why. I know he's a busy guy but this has to be the first time I feel this way about an article hosted here.

Maybe if he didn't come to the definitive conclusions that TM and 5/3/1 suck (especially when the recommended HLM and 4-day split aren't all that different in the parameters he criticized and the programming of both TM and 5/3/1 aren't as rigid as he makes them out to be) but would see it more as an comparison of some parameters of these programs with ideas on how to improve those would have fared better. Or maybe if he kept his thoughts on the things that are contradicting the current view on things in PP for extra articles dealing with those things in particular.

[marcf]

None of you guys have ever owned or run a business, eh? That's about as nice as Jim could get without hurting his bottom line.

[JohnW]

If Rip wanted to see someone slag on Wendler with impunity would he have allowed all those posts criticizing Jordan to see the light of day? There appear to be dissenters from Jordan's premise even among some of the SSC's.
.

It's also fair to point out that RIP is on record saying that 5/3/1 is a good program for the late intermediate. As far as I know he's mates with Wendler so good on him for publishing a dissenting opinion.

[Mark E. Hurling]

As far as I know he's mates with Wendler so good on him for publishing a dissenting opinion.

He is indeed. Jordan Feigenbaum MD SSC: The Texas Method and 5/3/1.