Determination of 'Novice?'

[crc]

Uh, I re-read my original message and, as my wife sometimes points out, maybe I could have been more clear. What I was saying about my form, basics, etc - I mean to be clear - I am NOT saying my form is perfect, nor is my understanding complete, nor am I too good for 'basics.' I just mean to say that I'm familiar with these movements because I have done them for a while. That's all. I would neeeeever come to the SS forum and say, 'oh I'm great and I don't need the basics.' Ha. Wouldn't that be some shit.

Even if you think your form is good, you should still post videos. There's almost always going to be room for improvement.

[Coconut Chris]

Uh, I re-read my original message and, as my wife sometimes points out, maybe I could have been more clear. What I was saying about my form, basics, etc - I mean to be clear - I am NOT saying my form is perfect, nor is my understanding complete, nor am I too good for 'basics.' I just mean to say that I'm familiar with these movements because I have done them for a while. That's all. I would neeeeever come to the SS forum and say, 'oh I'm great and I don't need the basics.' Ha. Wouldn't that be some shit.

I think you're (CRC) touching on my main point of confusion. If I start with (for example) 160 on my squat, but I can handle 180 with good form for all prescribed sets - I'm not really making progress, right? I mean, that stands to reason. It's like saying, 'start with weight way below what you can handle so you can make the 50 lb jump in a few weeks.' Can't really make that make sense in my head..

Progress in what sense? You'll have less weight on the bar for about 9 days. What were you doing 9 days ago, where you could have started at 160?

There are many reasons that starting at a mildly challenging weight - not more, not less - improves the prospects of a linear progression. Satch explained a few of them. You needn't worry about them right now.

[ChrisRozon]

In this context, novice doesn't mean beginner. It means someone, who with proper form and recovery, can continuously add weight to the bar every workout. Once that phase stops, you're not novice anymore. No more no less.

[Michael Wolf]

This:

In this context, novice doesn't mean beginner. It means someone, who with proper form and recovery, can continuously add weight to the bar every workout. Once that phase stops, you're not novice anymore. No more no less.

and this:

This is key.

The book says to start with sets of five and go until the bar speed slows down. Almost no one does this right on their own, myself included.

I'd say to start conservative (something you could hit for 3 sets of 8 reps easily) and increment in modest jumps (i.e. 5lbs) from there. While you're doing that, increase your caloric intake in a clean manner. Get plenty of rest, and you should be able to run a solid novice LP.

For instance, let's say you start squats at 135. In twelve weeks, with 5lbs jumps you'll be at 315. If you can stretch that out for another 6 weeks (18 weeks total), you'll be at 405. Not bad.

read them both twice - if you read the whole book twice, you can spare the 60 seconds to read these posts twice.

These two posts highlight a couple of the most common mistakes I see in people trying to "do the program." Understanding that "Novice" is a fairly specific physiological term, not a general statement of lifting experience, is key #1. Understanding that you will almost certainly start too heavy is key #2. And when you do so, without establishing good technique as your default, you will fail early and blame the program. It's much, much better to start with 3-5 reps in the tank and take the first few weeks to get your form right - as described in the book, not what you were doing previously - BEFORE the weight bears down on you and requires excellent form to avoid failure. Or you could get to that point at the end of week 1, fail, and get pissed off.

The thing is, a weight at which the 5th rep just starts to get hard, is a weight you could do for several more reps. This is the book's recommendation. But I've seen literally hundreds of people, even those with years of lifting "experience" (aka "repeating wrong" as Dan John as referred to it), get this horribly wrong and think that means a set where you just barely grind out the last rep and it's either a 5RM or close to it, maybe one rep in the tank.

Don't make either of these mistakes. Give yourself a nice running start to learn and perfect the technique as described in the book. It should improve noticeably, both in execution and in how much less you need to actively think about it to achieve that execution, every session or two for the first 2-4 weeks. By then, the weights will be heavy or at least relatively heavy, and you'll need the execution to be that good to keep going. If you start with those weights in week 1, you'll likely fail.

[RMHTexas]

This:


and this:


read them both twice - if you read the whole book twice, you can spare the 60 seconds to read these posts twice.

... without establishing good technique as your default, you will fail early and blame the program. It's much, much better to start with 3-5 reps in the tank and take the first few weeks to get your form right - as described in the book, not what you were doing previously - BEFORE the weight bears down on you and requires excellent form to avoid failure. Or you could get to that point at the end of week 1, fail, and get pissed off.

This was largely the basis of my question. I don't want to find myself in the camp of 'delusional' because I say, 'oh this isn't working' because I didn't actually start correctly. Similarly, I don't want to be here (boards) 6 weeks from starting and say, 'hey guys here's where I started and I'm on the basic SSLP and starting to stick, what's a good direction?' and have the response be, 'well you aren't doing the program' because of what 'should' happen to a novice lifter.

Appreciating the feedback.

[Greg Ruhl]

I would add that you don't fall asleep 1 day as a novice and wake up as an intermediate. There is a transition period and there are a variety of proven programming choices that can be employed at that time.

Also, I don't think I've ever seen someone who has claimed "good form" actually have passable form when they post a form check. RMH, you already clarified so I'm not talking about you.

[Michael Wolf]

Also, I don't think I've ever seen someone who has claimed "good form" actually have passable form when they post a form check. RMH, you already clarified so I'm not talking about you.

It's pretty rare, da.

[Brodie Butland]

I would add that you don't fall asleep 1 day as a novice and wake up as an intermediate. There is a transition period and there are a variety of proven programming choices that can be employed at that time.

Also, I don't think I've ever seen someone who has claimed "good form" actually have passable form when they post a form check. RMH, you already clarified so I'm not talking about you.

Corollary 1: 90% of the time someone claims their form is perfect, they have shit form.

Corollary 2: 90% of the time someone claims their form is absolutely terrible, it really isn't all that bad and just needs a little work.


For the OP, I have a little experience with this because life events have taken me away from lifting for months at a time in places. Every time I come back from a long layoff (i.e., a few months...usually I can do an accelerated return if it's only a few weeks), I do a linear progression as a novice. Even if I previously squatted over three plates and was doing intermediate programming when the layoff began. I also always took it easy after a layoff and didn't get too aggressive...partly because I know what DOMS can do, and partly because I'd rather undershoot and keep the train running than overshoot and struggle out of the box. Invariably I'll get to the point where I can no longer run a linear progression, and then I'll switch programming up accordingly.

An example: the first time I did a good LP run I got to 310x5x3...then I was stuck in a five week trial (with the attendant weeks of prep before it), which meant I was back to squatting under two plates when I finally got back to the gym. So I did something like 180 or 190, and then ran a linear progression. By the time I got to the Starting Strength Seminar in June 2012 (a gift to myself for the successful trial), I was doing 245 worksets. Eventually I ran that LP to 330x5x3. Then I was out of commission again for a couple months, and had to restart in the 240s. Again, I did a linear progression and got over three plates, and then switched programing.