Determination of 'Novice?'

[RMHTexas]

Howdy all -

So, obviously I'm new around these forums. I've purchased and read the SSv3 book, twice. Well, I haven't purchased it twice, but I've read it twice. You know what I mean.

I've wrestled with the idea of posting here and/or starting a training log here - going back and forth with the advantages and disadvantages (and/or hassle) and I think I've arrived at the conclusion that, even if it turns out badly (that is, I'm shown the door), having a history of workouts that you more-educated-than-me types could look at would help. I'm also applying the same logic to a body of questions.

My first question here revolves around my starting point, my thought process, and history.

Let me preface my question with both a quick profile and the mental gymnastics that got me to asking it. So, I'm 33 years old, 143lbs, pretty active, but not strong. I played sports through college (no, I didn't run) and have a martial arts background, too. Here's where I'm getting hesitant - I have a pretty substantial barbell history. I've lifted weights on and off a lot since I was about 20. Now, what I did not say was; I've been consistent for a decade. I know all my lifts with perfect form perfectly. I don't think I need anything 'basic.' None of that is what I'm saying. I only include my history with lifting weights to serve as a foundation for the question I'm asking.

Which is - Is it likely that someone my age with my 'experience,' will fall into the 'novice phase 1' category? I don't eat like I should, and I'm fixing that (my start date for the program is Monday 6/26). So, let's assume that's a big 'no shit' moment. My concern is that I'm pretty sure my starting numbers will be something like this:

Squat - 170-180
Press - 80-90
Bench - 145-155
Deadlift - 225-235
PClean - 135ish
Chins - I know I can do 14-15 in a set.

Let me say again that I have not tried 'the program' before, nor have I consistently strung together a diet meant to say, 'forget the abs, skinny human, put on some weight.' I get that. I don't want to fall into the 98.4% of people who don't do 'the program' because the results didn't match even if the effort was genuine. But, I'm concerned that I wont be progressing at the 10lb/5lb rate quickly enough without hitting a sticking point.

If the wisdom says, 'week one, novice, phase 1, go' is what I should do, I'm in. I'm wondering, though, if my goals would be better served starting a little more down the line?

Please understand, I'm not asking if I'm too good for the program and I'm not trying to outthink it. I'm just asking where my best 'starting' point is so as not to waste time.

Any thoughts? Much obliged, and nice to be here (side note, I'm also on the FB page)

[manveer]

143 lbs, but how tall are you?

No one can know how far you will go on novice LP. You should probably start there. Eat and sleep properly and see how far it takes you.

[RMHTexas]

Man -

Good call, sorry. Forgot about that. I'm 5'8".

[crc]

I know all my lifts with perfect form perfectly.

1. ^^^ Post form videos. ^^^
2. Expected starting working set weight of 135 with power cleans, and you're only expecting to be squatting 170-180 and benching 145-155?

You should start with lower weights than what you think you should, do the program from the beginning as prescribed, and quit overthinking things.

[Satch12879]

You start the same way as everyone else does. You are a novice unless proven otherwise. There are no "phases" to the program. The only way to determine where you are is to do the program.

Learn the lifts, find your starting weight, do a set of five. Do not assume your form is "perfect." People say this all the time and they get stapled after two weeks. Next session add more weight. Complete the prescribed reps and sets. Eat and recover. Don't add extra things. Continue until you can't. Make the appropriate adjustments. When that doesn't work, move on to intermediate programming.

Everyone does this, even people who have lifted for decades before starting the program. The point is to get your body used to training, regularly, and systematically with planned increases in loads.

You may last 6 weeks or 2 months or 6 months. No one knows.

Don't overthink it.

[RMHTexas]

1. ^^^ Post form videos. ^^^
.[/COLOR]

Uh, I re-read my original message and, as my wife sometimes points out, maybe I could have been more clear. What I was saying about my form, basics, etc - I mean to be clear - I am NOT saying my form is perfect, nor is my understanding complete, nor am I too good for 'basics.' I just mean to say that I'm familiar with these movements because I have done them for a while. That's all. I would neeeeever come to the SS forum and say, 'oh I'm great and I don't need the basics.' Ha. Wouldn't that be some shit.

I think you're (CRC) touching on my main point of confusion. If I start with (for example) 160 on my squat, but I can handle 180 with good form for all prescribed sets - I'm not really making progress, right? I mean, that stands to reason. It's like saying, 'start with weight way below what you can handle so you can make the 50 lb jump in a few weeks.' Can't really make that make sense in my head..

[RMHTexas]

You start the same way as everyone else does. You are a novice unless proven otherwise. There are no "phases" to the program. The only way to determine where you are is to do the program.

Learn the lifts, find your starting weight, do a set of five. Do not assume your form is "perfect." People say this all the time and they get stapled after two weeks. Next session add more weight. Complete the prescribed reps and sets. Eat and recover. Don't add extra things. Continue until you can't. Make the appropriate adjustments. When that doesn't work, move on to intermediate programming.

Everyone does this, even people who have lifted for decades before starting the program. The point is to get your body used to training, regularly, and systematically with planned increases in loads.

You may last 6 weeks or 2 months or 6 months. No one knows.

Don't overthink it.

Snatch - thanks. I used the phrase 'phase' because it appears in Rip's article in 'the program' section of the website. I don't mean to assign vernacular where it shouldn't be. What you're saying makes sense.

[Meshuggah]

Snatch - thanks. I used the phrase 'phase' because it appears in Rip's article in 'the program' section of the website. I don't mean to assign vernacular where it shouldn't be. What you're saying makes sense.

Lol... You got his name right. Don't listen to Snatch, he's a failure when it comes to lifting.

[RMHTexas]

This is key.

The book says to start with sets of five and go until the bar speed slows down. Almost no one does this right on their own, myself included.

I'd say to start conservative (something you could hit for 3 sets of 8 reps easily) and increment in modest jumps (i.e. 5lbs) from there. While you're doing that, increase your caloric intake in a clean manner. Get plenty of rest, and you should be able to run a solid novice LP.

For instance, let's say you start squats at 135. In twelve weeks, with 5lbs jumps you'll be at 315. If you can stretch that out for another 6 weeks (18 weeks total), you'll be at 405. Not bad.

Very valid point that I had not considered.

I guess it's worth mentioning that I really want to do this 'correctly,' because I'm attracted (obviously) to the results that seem very attainable - as I've never had them. Lifetime best squat was 270, bench 255, deadlift 325 and I would like to think that I could easily jump above those numbers with some dedication. I also know that, even in the most well intentioned of communities if there's a perception of 'silly bullshit' - either by addition or omission - it can be hard to get taken seriously as the 'new guy.' So, I'm trying to avoid that land mine (I literally wrote 'NO SILLY BULLSHIT' on my training log).

Also, Satch - my bad.

[Charlie Davies]

Please understand, I'm not asking if I'm too good for the program and I'm not trying to outthink it. I'm just asking where my best 'starting' point is so as not to waste time.

The program is self-adjusting for the fact that you have already been training.

* You start with weights that are only slightly challenging for 3 sets of 5 (or 1 set of 5, for deadlifts). This avoids crippling soreness from the first couple sessions.
* You use big jumps in weight at first, as you get used to the program.
* This will very quickly get you to working weights that are very hard, requiring much smaller jumps in weight.

You won't be on novice progression *as long* as a complete beginner, but you've definitely got some room for novice gains at 143 lbs, 5'8" and 33 years old. Assuming you eat enough to gain weight slowly.

If your specific question is "when do I start doing deadlift less often" and "when do I add lighter squats on Wednesday", the answer is "when you can't recover from deadlifts in 2 days" and "when you can't add 5lbs 3x/week on squats anymore".
This will depend on your diet and sleep probably.