Which type of Back Squat puts more stress on the back?

[Igor]

What is more stressful on the back? LowBar or HighBar Squat? In this vid from 2009 (or earlier, upload date =/= record date) coach Rippetoe states that LowBar is less stressful on the back and this is one of the reasons why he recommends it for virtually everyone, including weightlifters (alongside other arguments such as more weight used, more posterior chain engagement etc).

This really sounds counter intuitive considering how much more horizantal position the back assumes and thus higher shear force applied on the back. Now obviously this stress is adaptable but as we all know recovery is finite and in some cases, when the back is already under a bunch of stress due to other activities/exercises (ie weighlifts and their variants, strongman event training) this additional stress caused by the low bar squat might be simply too much.



0:10-0:16 I like to teach begginers the low bar position because it's easier on their back, they can lift more weight that way.
1:16-1:46 Why lowbar for WL? 1. More weight can be used. 2. Let's stressful on the back and since WLers do a lot of pulls anything you can do to minimize back strain is good.

PS. Considering the fact it's a pretty old video I think there might be possibility that Rip has changed his mind since then. Haven't seen anyone on the board refuting this though.

[MBasic]

I've seen many lifters say or do, "I did HBBS today to give my back a break from LBBS".

. . . or things along those lines.

Fsqt has almost zero back stress.
HBBS is somewhere between LBBS and Fsqt . . moment arm wise, etc.
So yeah, I don't get it either (video).

I guess it might depend how you HBBS, how you execute it. . . .loads, etc.

[Igor]

I've seen many lifters say or do, "I did HBBS today to give my back a break from LBBS".

. . . or things along those lines.

One could also argue that the sole reason for this is lower absolute loads in the highbar squats, especially if you're a lowbar squatter and rarely do the highbar version.

I guess it might depend how you HBBS, how you execute it. . . .loads, etc.

Well that's a whole another topic but when discussing this stuff we should refer to the "model", not individual performances in a squat. Especially that in a lot of cases when loads are very close to maximal in a highbar squat hips tend to go back like in a lowbar squat on the way up so that posterior chain can help the quads more and/or upper back muscles cannot keep torso in vertical position.

[hollismb]

So, a guy named Igor doesn't want to 'stress' his back and is worried about 'shearing force', huh?

[Charlie Davies]

My risk of an acute low-back injury is greater with HB.

When I'm near failure, my hips drift back to pass more work from my quads to my ass. My ass is stronger and this will sometimes let me grind out the squat.

This is fairly safe in LB, I was already bent over close to the best balance between quads & ass. And the bar will stay put.

But in a HB squat, when the hips move back, the stress to the low back skyrockets.
Moment arm on the back is longer, and HB squats haven't strengthened my low back as well as LB would have.
If my back angle gets bent enough, the bar will roll forwards onto my neck.

There's a risk of folding up like a taco, and hurting my neck or low back in the process.
Probably this is why Oly lifters are trained to stay upright no matter what and to dump the bar behind themselves on failure.

But I'm not trained to do that, and don't have bumper plates.
I always fail a squat forwards onto the safeties.
This is safer low-bar.

[Igor]

So, a guy named Igor doesn't want to 'stress' his back and is worried about 'shearing force', huh?

This is not about me, this is about whether the Rip statement from ~2009 regarding stress on the back while lowbar vs highbar squatting is correct or not. Exactly this type of attitude resulted in the opinion that SS community is dogmatic. Can't question anything, can't say one word about lowbar squatting other then it's the best thing since invention of the wheel. Just shut up, do the fuckin program, squat lowbar and drink GOMAD or you are a heretic and will remain weak forever.

So read my post as many times as you need to understand the point and then maybe you will be able to actually contribute in this thread. FYI I squat almost exclusively lowbar and try to stay in line with what Rip and SSCoaches recommend. But I keep an open mind and when in doubt, not afraid to question what has been written in the books, said on a seminar etc.

PS. I was actually wondering if I need to put a disclaimer in the original post that this thread is not intended as an "attack" on the lowbar squat nor advocating for using highbar instead. hollismbs post proves that I should have done to prevent this type of trollish and meaningless behaviour.

[hollismb]

Nevermind.

[Igor]

My risk of an acute low-back injury is greater with HB.

When I'm near failure, my hips drift back to pass more work from my quads to my ass. My ass is stronger and this will sometimes let me grind out the squat.

This is fairly safe in LB, I was already bent over close to the best balance between quads & ass. And the bar will stay put.

But in a HB squat, when the hips move back, the stress to the low back skyrockets.
Moment arm on the back is longer, and HB squats haven't strengthened my low back as well as LB would have.
If my back angle gets bent enough, the bar will roll forwards onto my neck.

There's a risk of folding up like a taco, and hurting my neck or low back in the process.
Probably this is why Oly lifters are trained to stay upright no matter what and to dump the bar behind themselves on failure.

But I'm not trained to do that, and don't have bumper plates.
I always fail a squat forwards onto the safeties.
This is safer low-bar.

This is exactly in line of what I've said earlier

Especially that in a lot of cases when loads are very close to maximal in a highbar squat hips tend to go back like in a lowbar squat on the way up so that posterior chain can help the quads more and/or upper back muscles cannot keep torso in vertical position.

Even when watching elite lifters who are excellent highbar squatters you can see this pattern when they are using challenging weight, especially in paused squats or at the end of a moderate-high rep set. I've recently rewatched some squatting clips of Max Aita, Dmitry Klokov, Clarence Kennedy... With enough weight they all shift their hips back out of the hole.

Regarding bar rolling up to the neck I remember Tom Narvaez has adressed this issue in one of his PTW videos. In a properly set up lowbar squat the bar simply cannot move, even if you screw it up technique wise and end up doing "goodmorning squat". If that happens in a highbar position it can end very badly. Obviously it's different if you're a proficient highbar squatter like guys I mentioned above.

[MBasic]

So, a guy named Igor doesn't want to 'stress' his back and is worried about 'shearing force', huh?

that was pretty funny

he was making a joke Igor

[Charlie Davies]

Regarding bar rolling up to the neck I remember Tom Narvaez has adressed this issue in one of his PTW videos. In a properly set up lowbar squat the bar simply cannot move, even if you screw it up technique wise and end up doing "goodmorning squat". If that happens in a highbar position it can end very badly. Obviously it's different if you're a proficient highbar squatter like guys I mentioned above.

There's an element of self-selection with the Oly types -- they usually have short femurs relative to their torsos, and good ankle mobility.
If they didn't, they couldn't be any good at their sport. They can stay very upright and always dump the bar behind.

SS is trying to train *everyone*, including people with fucked-up ankles and very long-legged basketball players.