RPE vs bar speed / RPE training experts.. thoughts??

[BBB]

I've been doing RPE training for almost 3-months now... I've been taking it pretty slowly, but I wonder if I'm taking it TOO slowly?

Here's a 425x1 @8 from two months ago. This is a "true" @8, because I've done this weight for a triple in the past.


Here's what I've called an @8 from yesterday:


Curious if it's fair to rate RPE based on bar speed or if there's anything else I should be taking into account? When I squatted yesterday, in my mind it was an 8.5-9, but upon watching the video, I lowered it to an @8. In comparing the previous @8 and this one, I'm thinking that may actually be an @7-7.5 now... thoughts??

What's people experiences with RPE, bar speed, and so on? Is it a relatively accurate gauge? Can I use it in my training or should I go based on how "it felt" only? I just feel like I've been going slow to stay on the safe side, but sacrificing progress as a result.

Thanks!!

[BBB]

Oh, another reason I'm asking the question is I was watching this video of Jordan squatting for what I assume is his @8 single and it looked pretty slow as well.... so I don't know if there's a connection, etc etc..

(about 12-seconds in)

[manveer]

I've been doing RPE training for almost 3-months now... I've been taking it pretty slowly, but I wonder if I'm taking it TOO slowly?

Here's a 425x1 @8 from two months ago. This is a "true" @8, because I've done this weight for a triple in the past.
[snip]

Here's what I've called an @8 from yesterday:
[snip]

Curious if it's fair to rate RPE based on bar speed or if there's anything else I should be taking into account? When I squatted yesterday, in my mind it was an 8.5-9, but upon watching the video, I lowered it to an @8. In comparing the previous @8 and this one, I'm thinking that may actually be an @7-7.5 now... thoughts??

What's people experiences with RPE, bar speed, and so on? Is it a relatively accurate gauge? Can I use it in my training or should I go based on how "it felt" only? I just feel like I've been going slow to stay on the safe side, but sacrificing progress as a result.

Thanks!!

The 425 looked like it was about an 8, maybe a little easier. 445 looked definitely easier than 8.

Here's a good video for you:

Oh, another reason I'm asking the question is I was watching this video of Jordan squatting for what I assume is his @8 single and it looked pretty slow as well.... so I don't know if there's a connection, etc etc..

(about 12-seconds in)

Some lifters can grind more than others. Look at John Petrizzo's videos. The more experience you get, the better you will be able to grind.

[BBB]

manveer, thanks... watched Izzy's video and he basically says bar speed shouldn't be looked at if there's potential for technical breakdown. Assuming there is no technical breakdown... is bar speed then a good indicator or should there be other considerations?

Thanks for your thoughts of my RPE... that helps.

If anyone else has thoughts, please share.

[John Hanley]

If anyone else has thoughts, please share.

if your competitive movement involves a barbell...you need more feedback/data than barspeed.

For most other athletes, I think barspeed works great for load selection & as an objective measure of fatigue (in other words, as an objective means of dialing is stress dose).

Manveer probably has as much experience as anyone who's not Duffin or Mike T using rpes in conjunction with barspeed data. So his perspective is really useful.

^ you said you work doing AI shit. if you're thinking about building a product for the collegiate market that optimizes bar-speed based programming using sports performance data, I'll cut your throat.

[manveer]

manveer, thanks... watched Izzy's video and he basically says bar speed shouldn't be looked at if there's potential for technical breakdown. Assuming there is no technical breakdown... is bar speed then a good indicator or should there be other considerations?

Looking at the speed of the bar on video is a good indicator. I don't know the particulars of your training, but I find that things get tricky for me when I am training fatigued. Reps will go from looking fairly easy/smooth to difficult quickly once that fatigue sets in and I can't hold a good back position anymore. So, someone looking at bar speed would say "oh, that was a 7!" but really it's an 8.5 because I can feel how hard it is to keep my back rigid and in position. Once that back rounding starts to happen, the bar speed drops dramatically and the movement becomes much less efficient.

Manveer probably has as much experience as anyone who's not Duffin or Mike T using rpes in conjunction with barspeed data. So his perspective is really useful.

Thanks. How do I get someone to inexpensively take all of my handwritten bar speeds and RPEs from my notebook and put them into a spreadsheet? I was keeping a spreadsheet until I started doing 9000 reps per session, then it got to be too much. I guess OpenBarbell has a way to export data now if you use the app, but every time I use the app it still sucks.

if you're thinking about building a product for the collegiate market that optimizes bar-speed based programming using sports performance data, I'll cut your throat.

Hit me up for consulting. I will give you a discounted rate of only $300/hr.

[gtl]

Not trying to say bar speed is the end all be all, but I would say an @8 includes some decrease in speed on the concentric (we're still saying absent of technical error here).

That's not to say that you can't do a speedy @8, but x1@8 might show a little bit of a "sticking point" (sorry for using that term) and say a x5@8 might show that the speed of the last rep had slowed down compared to the first say 3 or 4 reps.

I'm not saying absolute bar speed here either, but relative.

I thought your first video looked like 425@6.5 and second video maybe 440@7.5. Things are always individualistic, but @6.5 is kind of hard to talk true RIR. For the @7.5 -- think immediately after, gun to your head, could you have done 2.5 more?

[MBasic]

both of those looked like they would've been easy triples

I also have thought Jordans "8's" looked like 9's.
Maybe he can grind em out like a mofo (as others have said).
have not seen him lift enough to say.

[65DSL]

Nice looking squats man, looks like you definitely had more in the tank.

I have been using RPEs for a little over a year and I will share my thoughts and observations. For me I use bar speed and feel to gauge and it has taken some time and practice to hone. On a set of @ 7 for me there will be a slight slowing of the bar at my sticking point. This is not perceptible on video. On a set of at @ 8 that slow down at the sticking point will be visible on video. For a set @ 9 that slow down may actually be a brief pause of the bar on the last rep. So a set of 5 @9 for the first 3 reps are fairly quick with a none to a brief pause at the top, good bar speed, then on #4 a good pause at the top for breath with the bar slowing down on the way up, and #5 a longer pause at the top with the bar maybe briefly stopping on the way up, definitely slower bar speed than the previous rep. Form maybe just starting to go as well. On singles this is harder to judge since you are only dealing with one quick rep so on my recent DL pulls I will review the video between sets. My last two x1 DL pulls my @8 "felt" heavy as fuck but bar speed was good so I loaded up the weight for the @9 and pulled the PR no problem.

[marcf]

I always found it strange when people say, "That looked like an 8 or maybe even 7.5" Rate of *Perceived* Exertion, in my opinion, is how you feel and entirely subjective. I'm not sure how I feel about the idea of "true RPE" as a term for how many more reps you actually have left in the tank, versus how much you feel you have left in the tank.

I always record my working sets to see how my speed looks compared to how I feel, and there are plenty of times when I was convinced I had only one or no reps left in the tank when the video makes it look like I probably had two. In cases like that, I always write or note down how I felt even if the bar moved really well.

But in learning how to use RPE, I would sometimes push myself to what is really a heavy, grindy rep and I'll watch the video for reference and how fast the last 2-3 reps looked vs. how they felt. I think it's occasionally useful to do this while still learning the process because you don't know where you're just being a pussy or when you're really hitting your limits. And the opposite is true if you're the gung-ho type who is struggling with the last rep and you rack the bar and tell yourself you definitely had 2-3 left in the tank.