Working up to squatting an empty bar

[twindeltatandem]

I've been trying to figure out how to help my dad start to squat. He's nearly 80, has Parkinson's and is starting to really deteriorate physically. He's far from being able to squat even a 25-pound bar. I thought about getting some of those padded aerobics bars, but I'm a little concerned putting him in a normal squat grip viz his shoulders, etc., until he gets a little strength.

I read where Rip trained his mother, I believe, by starting her out on a leg press machine. This would require me to get him to a gym, which isn't going to happen.

So what I'm thinking about doing is this:

- Body weight squats, 5 across, onto an adjustable squat box. Start high, progressively lower the box. Arms do pretty much whatever they need to do to maintain balance.

- While working the basic squat motion with the box and increasing flexibility, increase resistance with a weight vest. This will allow me to make very small incremental weight increases.

- The goal will be to remove the box eventually and then groove the balance aspects of the basic squatting motion while working up to at least a 25-lb vest.

- When this is achieved, continue with the vest and learn the movement with a PVC pipe.

- Finally, transition to an unloaded 25-pound bar and progress from there.

I don't think it really matters how far along this continuum we get as long as we're working to make some progress. Safety will drive if/when to remove the box. Shoulder mobility and balance will play into if/when to transition from vest to bar, etc. For that matter, I'd be pretty thrilled with simply progressing with a box and vest and I think this could possibly take him to his potential. But a weighted bar to a relatively deep squat is the goal. If we get there, maybe he'll consider doing some press work (his brilliant orthopedic surgeon told him to never put weight on his reconstructed shoulder about 15 years ago, and he's taken that advice as the word of God).

Any thoughts on this approach?

[Mark E. Hurling]

I'm far from being a doc, but does his Parkinson's affect his balance or would it allow him sufficient stability to do unsupported squats? I think this alone will make squatting a very challenging thing for him to do.

As for your progression, I'd suggest that he start free squatting in front of some kind of rail or bar for him to grip to provide the best stability. If he can master this with his Parkinson's then maybe the rest will go OK.

You could also consider ball squats. Get an exercise ball and put him the right distance out from the wall to allow him to get to depth with the ball behind his back supporting and stabilizing him. http://www.ehow.com/how_2362533_do-s...all-squat.html

He can add weight with dumbbells in his hands as he gets stronger.

[Gene61]

I'd love to get my Dad (84) squatting! Let us know how you and your Dad make out.

[twindeltatandem]

Well, he's coming out for my promotion ceremony here in a couple of months and I'll be able to corner him in my garage gym. I know he could do it if he can get his mind right--the guy's a West Point grad, former Ranger pathfinder. Just really went down hill over the past 10 years or so. I think the way to proceed is to start with a very natural movement--sitting down and standing up. By using a weight vest I can emulate body weight versus creating a moment arm (e.g., holding dumbbells or kettlebells). Progressive resistance should stimulate hormones and some growth, reestablish motor units and CNS involvement. I'd love to hear Sullydog's thoughts if he's still lurking around.

[hagrid's dad]

I'd second Mark's recommendation of a bar or rail to grip. When I started out, I was so weak (and so heavy) I couldn't do air squats, and holding on to the post at the top of the stairs was enough to let me get my body through the full range of motion.

[Dastardly]

My dad is 84 also and fairly immobile due to bad arthritis & sight. I dont know the specifics of your dad, people can vary so much at that age. I met a woman the other day in her 80's and she works 10 hours a day, two jobs!

For an older person, I would personally spend a lot of time on controlled mobility, passive movements and working with the bodies natural tension. He will get much more out of it, and it will be safer. What am I talking about?

Simply learning to control the body, stuff like hip hinges, controlled stretching, unweighted squats, bird dogs, pressing a broomstick, good mornings with a broomstick, unweighted lunges, walking upstairs, IF he can swim then that too.

Basically just using the body, some normal housework like sweeping is good, if you can find a class then Tai Chi or moderate Pilates. You want this stuff to be gentle and focus more on neurological control tan beating the joints & muscles to submission, which at this age will not respond that well. Injury is likely and if it happens it will be very bad.

After running through this GPP style course for several months, if he has progressed well then I would consider one loaded compound exercise only. Guess what? Deadlifts.

In terms of arm work, I would shy away from weighted pressing for risk of injury. If he finds it very easy then perhaps, other wise I would focus on only the strongest movements which are likely to be a row motion with elbow close to body, and curls.

Ovehead and shoulder work can be done unweighted, or with bean cans for high reps/long time not heavy loading.

[twindeltatandem]

Tai Chi is great; and yes, there should be mobility work. But pretty much all the literature agrees that progressive loading is the key to improvement. Deadlifts? I'm not with you on that...what's your reasoning for deadlifts over squats?

[Dastardly]

Squats involve a significant eccentric, stretch reflex and heavily focuses on the large muscle mass of the legs. Muscle mass a person in their 80's doesn't necessarily have. Most 80 year olds will also have knees & hips which are heavily worn. The technique for squats is also a lot harder. They require putting the body into positions that an old or sedentary person might have not been in for decades, positions which are very challenging and risk injury. (The bar grip is a good example)

Deadlifts are different. They involve body positioning that everyone can get into. The ROM is small, their is no eccentric. Instead is is an extremely "high tension" exercise done over a short distance allowing the trainee to move the maximum possible amount of weight by recruiting every muscle in their body simultaneously. This is highly taxing on the nervous system, but does not put any risky stress on joints as everything remains in a comfortable position. It also depends much less on muscle mass.

An old person is much more likely to progress well on deadlifts, your father will get much more out of it in my opinion and it will be easier to approach and safer too. For programming I would look at pavels power to the people.

[Mark E. Hurling]

I have to lead off with some huge disclaimers and qualifiers here. At the risk of offending you I will offer up somethings to consider about you and your father. I had some of this to deal with myself with my own father when he had a massive stroke that nearly killed him in his mid 70s. Like your father in some ways, he was a Marine Raider in the Pacific and survived 3 amphibious landings and God knows what else. Our relationship was always stellar but we did care about each other a great deal. We just didn't get around to expressing it verbally and openly until I was in my early 40's and he was in his early 70s.

Facing the thought of The Old Man's disablement and pending mortality was just crushing for me. I rushed to Michigan where he was hospitalized and was appalled at seeing a big strong active man like he was shrunken under a sheet with the left half of his face looking like softened wax. He couldn't talk very well and his left hand was dead and cold as I touched it. I thought, "I have to fire him up and get him into a mode of struggling back." So I found some USMC jody call tapes and a recorder for him to play them on to listen to. It brought a smile to the right corner of his mouth and what might have been a weak exhaling chuckle.

In the end though, he did fight back and managed to regain some limited mobility with a walker and later a quad point cane.

Perhaps this is not being well expressed and if so, I sincerely ask your forbearance if I have over stepped some boundaries. At some point your father will need to find the physical and mental means to undertake the basics of what he needs to do to enjoy a better quality of life with the hand of cards he has been dealt. Always keep in mind what he can do safely so he can keep doing it safely and progress safely. At 62 now, I know for myself I have to be more aware of things and actions to come out them well.

As for the deadlifts over squats, I think balance is easier to achieve on a pull than it is getting loaded under a bar or vest. If something goes South with a deadlift your father can just let go. Much easier and more intuitive than learning how to dump a squat. Also less likely to drive him into the ground under the load.

I hope you find some of this useful, and again, I hope I gave no offense.

[twindeltatandem]

No offense. I don't think my dad is to the tipping point, but is headed in that direction. Copy deadlifts over squats. I still think a weighted vest (which was the thing I was seeking feedback on originally) would do a good a job and would allow for progressive loading. If you've read Sullydog's article you'll know what I'm talking about.