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Thread: Dealing with ignorant school doctors

  1. #1
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    Default Dealing with ignorant school doctors

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    I work at a well funded high school, and I've just managed to set up a decent gym - three racks, three barbells, and lots of weight. I've got 48 rugby players, aged 15-18, coming over the week in groups of 12, all doing the SS program. They're making good progress.

    But a doctor is concerned that lifting is dangerous.

    I'm hoping you guys can help me here. Perhaps you've faced similar problems. I plan to answer him like this:

    1. Weight training promotes, not stunts, physical development.
    2. The rowers have been using free-weights for twenty years, and they're fine.
    3. Nobody has got anywhere near lifting double bodyweight on anything, and anyone who can lift double bodyweight on anything will have adapted to it in all the necessary ways.
    4. Supervised weightlifting is 5166 times safer than football and 1600 times safer than rugby. B. Hamill, ‘Relative Safety of Weightlifting and Weight Training’, Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research 8(1):53-57, 1994.
    5. 'There is no evidence to suggest that the risk of injury associated with strength training in youth is greater than that associated with other recreational activities in which children and teenagers participate regularly' (Jones et al Phys Sports Med 28 2000).
    6. The RFU's report, worth reading in full, support us, too: http://www.rfu.com/TakingPart/Fitnes...20players.ashx
    7. Other schools use free-weights, and their boys not only don't get injured but put our boys in ambulances.
    8. His being concerned about boys' lifting weights above their heads is absurd. Does he want to ban line-outs, too?
    9. Finally, here's a dwarf squatting six times his bodyweight, and he doesn't evaporate into a mist of blood:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dwco3TFoQVQ

    Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
    Last edited by wk105; 04-05-2013 at 02:21 AM.

  2. #2
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    I don't envy your situation.

    It sounds like you've got your ducks in a row with regards to the facts being on your side, but the diplomacy/politics side of the equation is unknown. How far you can get probably depends on how open the doctor is to changing his mind, and/or how open the decision makers at the school are to listening to your counter-arguments.

    These situations can get sticky very quickly and there's no proven way to navigate them. If it were me, I'd try to talk to the doctor 1-on-1, being respectful but asking what his opinion is based on (show me the facts that back up your claims - mechanisms of problem and does the research support this). And then bring yours, and see how he responds. If he's open minded, then you're set. If he's not responsive or outright hostile, go to the person who makes the ultimate decision, bring all your evidence and arguments, and hope that person or board is willing to listen to facts over the opinion of someone whose title begins with "Dr."

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Wolf View Post
    These situations can get sticky very quickly and there's no proven way to navigate them. If it were me, I'd try to talk to the doctor 1-on-1, being respectful but asking what his opinion is based on (show me the facts that back up your claims - mechanisms of problem and does the research support this). And then bring yours, and see how he responds. If he's open minded, then you're set. If he's not responsive or outright hostile, go to the person who makes the ultimate decision, bring all your evidence and arguments, and hope that person or board is willing to listen to facts over the opinion of someone whose title begins with "Dr."
    Michael is right. Doctors can be an extraordinarily reactionary and literature-resistant bunch. Have your data lined up, to be sure. DOn't be surprised if he digs in his heals.

    I once had an argument with a surgeon, and in the middle of it she actually said "Yes, yes, yes, I know what all the fancy books say, but I don't care."

    Sorry.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Knowland View Post
    9. Finally, here's a dwarf squatting six times his bodyweight, and he doesn't evaporate into a mist of blood:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dwco3TFoQVQ

    Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
    You cant argue with that. And your comment made me almost pee.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by conklinb View Post
    ...your comment made me almost pee.
    Usually it's women that have sometimes have that problem when squatting. Wonder if the school doc knows about that.

  6. #6
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    I just had my annual physical, qualifying me as an emergency responder. I was told that, my body mass index was too high, I was exercising wrong, and I was eating too much protein. This was told to me by an obese PA. Rather than fighting with her, especially since she was about to conduct the prostate exam, I agreed that I would try harder in the future. I also didn't tell her I just had two personal best lifts the previous week.

    Anyway, the burden of proof is on the person making the claim, so if your guy claims that, for example, full squats are bad for your knees, have him produce the evidence. You don't have to fight, simply ask if he could point you to the refereed literature. This would be of interest to you since your understanding is otherwise.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bcharles123 View Post
    I just had my annual physical, qualifying me as an emergency responder. I was told that, my body mass index was too high, I was exercising wrong, and I was eating too much protein. This was told to me by an obese PA. Rather than fighting with her, especially since she was about to conduct the prostate exam, I agreed that I would try harder in the future. I also didn't tell her I just had two personal best lifts the previous week.

    Anyway, the burden of proof is on the person making the claim, so if your guy claims that, for example, full squats are bad for your knees, have him produce the evidence. You don't have to fight, simply ask if he could point you to the refereed literature. This would be of interest to you since your understanding is otherwise.
    I just tell 'em: "Look, in the event of a fire, SOMEONE has to be able to drag the lardasses out of the building. Allow me to introduce myself: I'm SOMEONE."

  8. #8
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    I would be careful about showing the guy too much of what you are bringing to the table before you can gauge his willingness to be reasonable. If I were you I wouldn't want the guy to know that you are intelligent enough to cite literature and form a coherent and compelling argument.

    The best you can hope for is that you enter into a meeting with the doctor and whoever makes the final decision being much more well prepared than the doctor. If you come prepared and all he has to offer is "Well, I'm a doctor and I disagree" you have a decent shot. If he takes you seriously enough to come prepared you are in trouble. Don't expect the higher ups to bother figuring out who brought the best evidence, he is a doctor, he wins.

    “Appear weak when you are strong, and strong when you are weak.” -The Art of War

    Office politics is war!

  9. #9
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    Maybe point the doc to Sully's video on here. Might take the info better from one of his people. Some educated people can be dismissive regardless of how right you are if you don't have the right letters following your name.

  10. #10
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    starting strength coach development program
    Is the old "don't lift heavy weights until the growth plates are fused" or whatever thing still followed, or is that a myth?

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