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Thread: Squat form check

  1. #1
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    Default Squat form check

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    Not entirely sure where to start with this. Probably with video. I figured out I've been squatting with a slightly too narrow stance for a while now. Explains a lot. So, I widened it out, and well, now I can feel my hips actually working. So that's nice.

    This was last Friday. When I widened my stance to where it should be. 190kgx3x5.





    The following Monday. 195kgx3x5 with a slightly too wide stance for the first two sets. This made things rather harder then they should be. Video shows the second and third sets.





    Then because I have been unhappy with my squat form for a while, and also because I pulled my low back slightly deadlifting on Wednesday, I reset to 140kgx3x5. This is obviously very light, yet, my knees are still not solid. Embedding seems to be screwing up, skip to 45 seconds.





    Most of the problems I'm having are with my rack, and with my knees at the bottom. With a nice narrow grip (pinkies on the rings) the bar stays in place but I find it gives me a bit of tendinitis. I've been playing around with a wider grip lately and whilst I find it easier on the elbows, it's really hard to keep the bar in place. Obviously if the bar starts moving, this is bad. My wrists seem to be consistently bent, and this really needs to be fixed.

    The knees have been a problem for a while. I'm not sure if the position before they slide forwards is the correct one, or after with my knees slightly in front of my toes. So I'm not sure if I should keep my knees back more, or push them forwards more.

    If you want any more videos I've been filming my squat twice a week for about the last couple of years. I have more. Many more.

    My log can be found here if it's at all relevant.

    http://startingstrength.com/resource...ad.php?t=27693

    Thanks, and please be gent- That's not going to happen is it Steve?

  2. #2
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    You've got a pretty strong back there, OCG, to be using that much knee slide and still making the reps go up as easily as you do.

    Looks like your knees will be about even with your toes at their most forward position. When you let them slide, they get way in front of your toes - watch your shin angle when you slide forward at the bottom. Your goal is to get your knees to their end position sooner. Think "Knees First" then "sit back." Knees first means get your knees forward right from the get go (pushing them out too, of course). Sit back means sit your hips down and back to make up the rest of the depth. This will set your back angle correctly and at the right time, and allow full engagement of the posterior chain to drive out of the hole, which you're currently not getting.

    The following was apparent in many of your reps, but I saw it most pronounced in reps 3,4, and 5 of your final set in your first video (190kg). Watch the difference in your back angle on the way down vs the way up. On the way down, you maintain an artificially vertical back angle and get to depth by sliding your knees way forward at the bottom. On the way up, however, your body naturally achieves the alignment it must be in to lift the weight - knees further back, back angle more horizontal, hips driving up. That's essentially the position you should put yourself in on the way down as well. It will maintain your back angle through the entire rep, eccentric and concentric, and allow you to use your hams, adductors, and external hip rotators to their fullest to lift the weight.

    Might feel a little weird at first, since you've been bouncing off your quads. Might feel like you're too far back. But you'll be in balance and in the best place to lift the most weight.

    Regarding your wrists, you're right, they're bent back.

    Next workout, use your warm-up sets to be super strict about both knees and wrists. Get your wrists strictly in neutral, and feel what it's like to keep them there. Set your knee angle in the first half of the way down, then sit back - feel what it's like to do that. Pay attention to both of those things throughout every warm-up set, from empty bar on up. When you don't have to worry about the weight burying you, notice what it feels like to do those things correctly. Then see if you can translate it to your working sets without having to take any weight off the bar.

    Ultimately you might need to work on it with a bit less weight, but that wouldn't be ideal. Let's see if you can use the "Knees first" then "sit back" cue for your hips, and your attention on your wrists to fix this without having to de-load at all. Post a video and we'll check it out.

    FWIW, I have just been dealing with a similar issue that arose in my own training. After returning from a pulled muscle in my lower back, I was subconsciously trying to protect it by maintaining an artificially vertical back angle on my descent, and then I was forced to go into knee slide to make up depth. Feel free to peruse the recent entries in my log, where some of the same things have been discussed. Maybe you'll find something useful there, too.
    Last edited by Michael Wolf; 03-17-2013 at 10:54 AM.

  3. #3
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    Thanks Michael. Framing through the videos posted here you are entirely correct. For the first half of the movement my knees basically don't move very much at all, then down the bottom they are constantly moving forwards. I break with my hips first. Basically, my knees are doing exactly the opposite of what they should be.

    I have a light week right now so I'll just be squatting with lightish weights. I can post those up here or I can just wait until next week when I go heavy if you'd like.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by OCG View Post
    Thanks Michael. Framing through the videos posted here you are entirely correct. For the first half of the movement my knees basically don't move very much at all, then down the bottom they are constantly moving forwards. I break with my hips first. Basically, my knees are doing exactly the opposite of what they should be.

    I have a light week right now so I'll just be squatting with lightish weights. I can post those up here or I can just wait until next week when I go heavy if you'd like.
    Post a couple sets of your squats with the lighter weights, so we can see if you're doing it right. But the important thing will be translating that to the heavier weights you use to spur progress.

  5. #5
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    Feels just a [/i]little[/i] weird. Angle isn't the best. Sorry about that.



    At this point in time I'm not too fussed about the weight. I'm finding not squatting so heavy is doing good things for my bench press, so I'm happy pushing that for the time being. Besides, a month off is nothing much to worry about.

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    This is better, but still needs work. Most reps still showed knee slide; though less pronounced than previously, that may be due to the lower weight. However, you do have some reps sprinkled in here and there that were pretty good and showed a knee position fixed by the halfway point of descent. You're on the right track, but need to work it more. The "knees first, then sit back" cue seems to be helping, but you may need to exaggerate the sit back in your own mind even more.

  7. #7
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    More video. 150kgx3x5 then 180kgx3. I tried but it's awfully hard to be a good cameraman when you're also squatting. Also, what is the best/preferred angle for this?



    Still needs work but it's getting there I think. Feeling less weird. Wrists still need focus. Also, I'm finding that my back angle being more consistent helps with my elbows and the bar not wanting to shift around.

  8. #8
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    You've gotten your knees under much better control. I'll let Wolf comment further. With regard to camera angle, rear oblique is the best if you have to pick one. I suspect you are squatting facing the other direction to avoid mirrors. Your first angle would be decent if you were turned the other way, although that might prove distracting. Read this:

    http://startingstrength.com/resource...ad.php?t=16744

  9. #9
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    Knees are definitely under better control. Since you're still learning and getting used to this new movement, your squats are a bit uneven and herky-jerky in that you're doing them in two separate pieces: the knees forward, then the lean over/hips back. But that's normal and to be expected at the beginning. More practice with the corrected form will smooth it out as well as continue to improve the little bit of knee slide that's still creeping in on some of the reps.

    Just as a point of reference, watch your last rep (3rd rep @ 180kg). In this rep, you're actually too far back and the bar is over your heels at the bottom. Watch how it has to actually move forward, to mid-foot, before you can really start to drive up.

  10. #10
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    starting strength coach development program
    Apologies once again for the angle. It's hard to get good video when the rack is shoved into a corner against a mirror. Hopefully you can see enough that it's useful.

    Skip to 1 minute 23 seconds.



    Or, click here:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNU9RNWjH_Y#t=1m23s

    I need to stick my knees forwards more I think. Also I had my belt too lose for the second set of 160kg and I wasn't tight enough for 190kg.

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