weight class athletes(martial artists/boxers)

[Eric Larousse]

What would programming look like for a novice to barbell training but they wanted to gain strength without gaining weight. Obviously diet would have to be in check but can you give an example template of what barbell training would look like as far as reps/sets/frequency and how often to add weight to the bar? And what would it look like if they advanced to "intermediate" programming while maintaining there weight? Not sure if you would just start off with sets of 3 for a modified type starting strength then move to a texas method type program with lower reps?

[Steve Hill]

It would look exactly like a novice program. And when they couldn't maintain that anymore, then it wouldn't. This would probably be a good question to ask in Andy's forum.

But from my perspective as a coach, I'd have to ask, for instance:

- How competitive is the individual in the current weight class?
- Is this in-season for the sport, or out of season?
- Can he/she put on weight now and cut it later?
- Exactly how patient is the individual?

Not asking your to answer all this, I'm just saying these are some of the many things that have to be taken into consideration.

[Andy Baker (KSC)]

Steve is right, much has to do with how much weight you are wanting to cut......I hate the whole weight cutting part of MMA, but it is a reality of the sport, and at the highest levels of the sport, if you don't learn how to do it right, you won't be very competitive. I think you really have to start at that number......how much weight are you comfortable shedding prior to fight night?

At the highest levels of the sport, Frankie Edgar is the only guy I know of that didn't cut alot of weight and yet was still competing at championship levels......that is until he ran into Ben Henderson (who does cut weight) who looked about 2 weight classes bigger than Frankie.

The MMA fighter I currently train (Brandon Gauthier) is competing for a title on Saturday night at Caged Combat here in Houston. He starts his diet at about 165-170 until he gets to 160 in the weeks leading to the fight....for weigh ins he cuts about 5 lbs of water to make 155.

I always start Brandon's training cycles out with sets of 5 on almost everything....we run that until he starts his diet and then his strength starts to stagnate a bit....at that point, we keep adding weight to the bar every workout but the reps drop down to sets of 2-4. Usually the week prior to the fight we are doing singles and doubles on everything, and maybe a 5 rep back off set.

What I DONT do when he starts his diet is reset the weights and stay with sets of 5. To me, this never made sense to put less weight on the bar just to be able to complete a set of 5.

[Eric Larousse]

I see. So what you are basically saying is that weight class athletes never really get much past true intermediate programming due to them cutting all the time? If that is the case what about barbell sports competitors? To my understanding you can get strong while maintaining weight (or even cutting weight)just not quite sure how they go about the programming for it? From what I understand these people train to a little over their weight class and then cut for competition?

[Andy Baker (KSC)]

I would venture to say that all athletes that are not competitive in the barbell sports never truly reach advanced programming levels, regardless of whether or not they cut weight.

The primary difference between a sport like MMA and weightlifting/powerlifting is all the other shit you have to do to be an MMA fighter that competes for energy with your strength training. To be an MMA fighter you have to spar, grapple, and run (or some other form of conditioning) and all that shit is crippling to your strength training efforts.....when you are low on calories and carbs.

[Matt Reynolds]

Eric,

I still would like for you to answer Steve's questions in his first post - I think it would be helpful to better apply our knowledge. I train and sponsor a professional fight team and work with lots of athletes on weight cuts.

[Eric Larousse]

It was more or less not a question about myself or a certain individual but I will just make a hypothetical athlete up.
- How competitive is the individual in the current weight class? we will say the individual is rather new to say mmA
- Is this in-season for the sport, or out of season? theres not really a "season" in MMA but more or a less an undetermined schedule of when fights are at least largely at the amateur level
- Can he/she put on weight now and cut it later? say he going to be fighting in 12 weeks at 170 but is hovering around 185 12 weeks out
- Exactly how patient is the individual? this individual is patient as spider waiting for a fly


also if you dont mind say an up and coming powerlifter or olympic lifter with the same build say 15% bf 190 pounds can cut or put on weight if need be and is also very patient?

Im just asking for informational purposes not trying to apply this to myself as I am just interested in getting strong at the moment but would like to know how it works. Thanks everybody for the info so far

[Matt Reynolds]

Well the primary problem with making bodyweight the main factor in training goals, is that most the time, people are asking the wrong question... the first question should be, "is this person strong?" - and if the answer is "No," as it will be 99% of the time with a fighter, then the fighter needs to just concentrate on getting stronger and let bodyweight fall where it may.

Now, if the fighter is a professional MMA fighter and gets paid and supports his family at a certain bodyweight, then obviously, considerations need to be made to keep from gaining weight, or even losing weight WHILE trying to get stronger - and this is difficult but can be done. Primarily I'd still start with the novice program, and control weight with diet, but once a fair amount of strength is built, I'd utiltize work in the 1-3 rep range, low volume, and continue to build strength that way, which is a pretty good way to get stronger while not putting on weight, but again, doesn't work without a solid strength base in the first place.

[Steve Hill]

I would venture to say that all athletes that are not competitive in the barbell sports never truly reach advanced programming levels, regardless of whether or not they cut weight.

I would concur.