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Thread: More Squat problems

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
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    Unhappy More Squat problems

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    I hope you can help because I really don't know what to do now, I'm stuck and there are two form issues that are preventing me from adding weight to the bar:

    1) I have a racking issue that has become more pronounced as the weight has increased
    2) I am still getting pain in my left knee on rest days and just can't figure out why, my right knee is completely fine


    From the side it looked like I finally had my squats sorted, but the front and rear views show a couple of problems:

    1) The bar leans to the right during my squats, my training partner had mentioned this to me before but I did not think it had gotten as bad as this. I can't feel this happening and I don't know why it does either. We’ve tried videoing from different angles to get a better view and I have tried an asymmetrical grip but this didn’t work and I am still not sure what is going on. Possible causes I can think of are:

    - asymmetrical shoulder flexibility meaning the bar sits in a different place on each side
    - losing tightness on the right side
    - leaning my torso to one side

    I don’t feel like I am doing any of the above but an expert eye could hopefully spot something that I could be missing.

    2) I appear to be sliding a little to the left towards the bottom of the squat and it looks like I push my left knee out more than my right. Could this be the cause of my left knee pain? It also looks like I may be twisting clockwise on my way down (am I seeing things?).

    (When I had my legs measured as Rip suggested, the physio said my left leg was 1/4 inch longer and that such a discrepancy was quite normal. I did a kind of test by assuming a chair position with my back against a wall and driving my hips back and it appears that the quarter inch is all in my femur (left knee is further forward than right).)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAzyrYY-_2M



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dXf8_taIMw



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3bJBUjlhyA




    Thanks again in advance

    Yas

  2. #2
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    Mar 2008
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    Your squats look pretty good to me. You could potentially lean over a little more. This would keep your knees from coming as far forward as they are and help you to drive up with your hips, but there is nothing terrible happening in any of these. You have a hint of shift off to one side on the front view. Why not try a 1/4 piece of rubber or wood under your shorter leg?

    What is a racking problem in the squat? How much pain are we talking about in your knee?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Campitelli View Post
    Your squats look pretty good to me. You could potentially lean over a little more. This would keep your knees from coming as far forward as they are and help you to drive up with your hips, but there is nothing terrible happening in any of these. You have a hint of shift off to one side on the front view. Why not try a 1/4 piece of rubber or wood under your shorter leg?

    What is a racking problem in the squat? How much pain are we talking about in your knee?
    Thanks for your reply Tom.

    Sorry, maybe I used the wrong terminology, by racking problem I mean the bar on my back. The bar leans to the right quite a lot, the lower I get the more it leans.

    My knee pain is a dull constant ache around the knee cap and back of the knee cap (but not deep inside the knee). At its worst, when I squatted 110kg in November, it became extremely uncomfortable, it was as though the back of my knee cap was digging in to my knee joint. Flexing my knee a few times would provide immediate relief for a few minutes but the pain would gradually return and there was an occasional lock/release feeling when standing up after being seated for a while.

    I have been looking carefully at my videos over and over and also figured out how to use kinovea. I believe I am twisting to the right on the way down and as a result the ends of the bar do not stay over my midfoot. The left end of the bar is a long way forward (see video), do you think this could be the cause of the knee pain?

    How do I go about correcting this bad movement pattern? I was thinking of stepping back in the rack until the bar touches the uprights behind me and trying to squat whilst keeping the bar in contact with the uprights, with say 60kg and working my way back up on LP.

    Thanks for your input

    Yas

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwN26mxjB3U

  4. #4
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    I noticed that the bar wasn't perfectly parallel to the ground on one of your three videos, but mostly because you pointed it out. The sad truth is that we are all asymmetrical in one way or another. There's probably not a lot to do about it and the best bet is just to train and get stronger. One of your legs is apparently a little shorter than the other. It wouldn't surprise me if this has some role in the bar being less than level on your back as well as your knee pain.

    Note: I am not a doctor, nor do I play one on TV. Keep that in mind for anything I say about your knee. I could be very wrong. End disclaimer.

    The pain you describe is a common presentation for runner's knee, also called Chondromalacia. However, there are bursa sacs in that area, too, which may be involved, or a whole host of other issues. Whatever the case, you have some joint pain, as many humans do. You'll have to decide how painful this condition is and how to correct it. A lot of time, knees will hurt, you will do something and the pain will either go away, or it won't, or maybe it goes away later. It's a lot like prayer in that way. The first thing to do is clean up your squat technique. More on that below. Then you are left with the old standbys - ice, heat, NSAIDs, massage, stretching, self-myofascial release, and last, but not least, prayer. Try them all. If none of that works, go see a doctor, but, once again, your chances of solving diffuse, mildly bothersome knee pain through a likely prescription of physical therapy are typically not all that good. If you've got a meniscus tear and need surgery, doctors are great. When something kind of hurts, even with a doctor, you are probably on your own and not even a stranger in California typing on the Internet can really help.

    On to your squat. You are not suffering from an insoluble nervous system deficit. You are relaxing a little at the bottom of the squat. Your back flexes just a touch and sometimes your knees go forward a little. Then, halfway up, you lift your chest a little. All this results in a non-vertical bar path, although I've seen a hell of a lot worse. Try this: get tighter at the bottom of the squat. The bounce at the bottom should not happen because you let go, but because you actively turn things around and start your ascent. Try and keep the bar over the midfoot for the entire movement. Drive strongly to the top with the hips, even through the middle. Put a shim under your short leg. Don't worry if the bar occasionally isn't dead parallel with the floor. Fix it when you feel it, or when it gets bad.

  5. #5
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    Minor update:

    I deloaded last week to my training partner's weights (~60kg) and I'm following LP with even greater emphasis on correct form for every rep. My training partner is watching carefully and giving me immediate feedback on every rep instead of just sitting somewhere and resting. This appears to be working well so far (although sometimes I am over correcting) and the knee pain has reduced, hopefully this is due to me correcting my bar path rather than taking weight off the bar. I shall update again when I get back to ~100kg.

    Thanks again for your advice Tom, and thanks also to Sully for the relevant comments in this thread http://startingstrength.com/resource...ad.php?t=38784

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