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Thread: Starting Strength for the Obese Trainee

  1. #11
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    Starting Strength is underrated for fat people. One problem with being fat is that it seriously limits your activity levels, which in turn limit your ability to get rid of the fat. It is impossible to run when you are obese, hard to walk, hard to do everything. In weight training, you are less limited by the obesity than you are in most other activities. In fact, it's possible to become fairly strong and fit while you're still fat by weight training. Once you're strong and fit, you are capable of a lot more activity than previously, and capable of losing fat more easily. And finally, the testosterone spike from weight training can be serious, and it makes weight loss far easier.

    That said, if someone were to conduct a study were they had 50 fat people doing starting strength, compared to 50 fat people doing starting strength + prowler everyday, I would be very interested in reading it and finding out the results.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by thras View Post
    That said, if someone were to conduct a study were they had 50 fat people doing starting strength, compared to 50 fat people doing starting strength + prowler everyday, I would be very interested in reading it and finding out the results.
    This would still be a tough one to set up, or at least easy to misinterpret. "Doing the prowler" is like "lifting weights" as the programming needs to be very well defined to explain what metabolic systems are being stressed.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    You think cardio is the best way to lose bodyfat? Especially when you weigh 350?
    I didn't say that. I said that it's retarded to tell someone to avoid doing cardio and focus on strength when they are obese. Plus it's more than likely that they have a history of heart disease, diabetes, and stroke in their family history. With that history and being obese at the same time, fat loss should be the main objective, not strength. It makes more sense to lose the fat first, get healthy, and then concentrate on strength. Besides someone that weighs 350 is going to have a hard time with barbell exercises, just like explained in the article. Cardio shouldn't be specifically excluded.

    Quote Originally Posted by thras View Post
    Starting Strength is underrated for fat people. One problem with being fat is that it seriously limits your activity levels, which in turn limit your ability to get rid of the fat. It is impossible to run when you are obese, hard to walk, hard to do everything. In weight training, you are less limited by the obesity than you are in most other activities. In fact, it's possible to become fairly strong and fit while you're still fat by weight training. Once you're strong and fit, you are capable of a lot more activity than previously, and capable of losing fat more easily. And finally, the testosterone spike from weight training can be serious, and it makes weight loss far easier.

    That said, if someone were to conduct a study were they had 50 fat people doing starting strength, compared to 50 fat people doing starting strength + prowler everyday, I would be very interested in reading it and finding out the results.
    Of course it's more difficult if you are fat. How can you say that you are "less limited" in weight training than "most" other activities. "Impossible to run when your are obese, hard to walk, hard to do everything."?. Come on now, and it's going to be easier to train with barbells?. Doubtful. Using barbells with correct form takes a lot more skill than walking or running. You've been walking and running since you were say 3 years old. So which is easier?.

  4. #14
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    I see. You disagree with the article.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by kins View Post
    I know you all think strength is the most important thing, but when you are over-weight with a family history of heart disease, stroke and diabetes, fat loss should become a priority. It's absolutely ridiculous to tell someone in that condition not to do any cardio. I'd even go so far as to say if you do you must have some mild form of mental retardation.
    You honestly that you think an obese individual should go out and pound the pavement running? This is what will happen.

    He'll set his alarm for 6am, get up, lace up his running shoes, and start running. He'll make it half a block before his chest feels like it is exploding. His knees will feel like they are on fire, and he'll have to stop. The feeling of failure that will envelop an obese person at this point is indescribable; it's something no one can understand until they experience it themselves. He'll never run again.

    Don't want them to run? Try an elliptical or a bike. The same thing will happen. They'll be overwhelmed with stress and anxiety in less than a minute and stop, never to return. I've seen it happen countless times over.

    Compare this with squatting under the supervision of an SSC. The knowledge and expertise of the coach will make sure the first session is a productive one, regardless of where the trainee will have to begin. The work will be hard, but the result and the associated feelings will be positive. He'll come back 48 hours later ready to take the next step in the process. By taking the steps towards getting stronger, the trainee will become more and more accustomed to physical activity and as a result, will begin changing their body composition for the better, by building lean muscle mass and burning fat.

    Quote Originally Posted by kins View Post
    Fat loss should be the main objective, not strength. It makes more sense to lose the fat first, get healthy, and then concentrate on strength. Besides someone that weighs 350 is going to have a hard time with barbell exercises, just like explained in the article. Cardio shouldn't be specifically excluded.
    Fat loss IS the main objective for obese trainees. It always is. They lose fat by following proper nutritional guidelines and increasing physical activity through barbell training, which allows them to get stronger in the process. Endless cardio does none of this.

    Of course it's more difficult if you are fat. How can you say that you are "less limited" in weight training than "most" other activities.
    Because it is true, and any competent coach can prove it.

    "Impossible to run when your are obese, hard to walk, hard to do everything."?. Come on now, and it's going to be easier to train with barbells?. Doubtful. Using barbells with correct form takes a lot more skill than walking or running. You've been walking and running since you were say 3 years old. So which is easier?.
    Absolutely it is. It genuinely sounds like you've never coached a lifter, any lifter, regardless of size, through the Novice Progression. If a trainee can't learn how to squat or deadlift, the fault lies with the coach. There may be some people out there that have such limited control over their central nervous system that learning the barbell exercises is a legitimate struggle, but it's rare to find someone who is so physically incompetent.

    The one thing you're right about is that fat loss should be a priority. So why not get strong at the same time? When it comes time to add cardio, they'll be more physically conditioned for it and can do a set amount of work that will make a set difference, as opposed to gassing out after half a block.

  6. #16
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    kins, what brought you to that opinion, given that you wrote this,

    Quote Originally Posted by kins View Post
    Great article Rip. Thanks again!. By the way, just ordered your hard covered edition of SS. Didn't even know it existed till today!
    in response to one of Rip's PJ Media articles on a similar topic? Granted, that article does not address obese individuals directly, but a lot of the content has applicable carry over.

  7. #17

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    Great article, Nick! Very important subject and I like both all your practical advice in there and how you recognize the psychological (pathological) aspects of obesity. ��

    How do you feel about pushups (modified by being done against a wall/box, on their knees, etc) as a progression into the bench press?

    […] since the leg press offers a different type of stimulus than the full barbell squat, the rep range should be modified from 5 reps to 3 sets across of 8-10 reps.
    Could you elaborate on this please? I'm curious about the difference in stimulus and the rep ranges.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by athlegan View Post
    Great article, Nick! Very important subject and I like both all your practical advice in there and how you recognize the psychological (pathological) aspects of obesity. ��

    How do you feel about pushups (modified by being done against a wall/box, on their knees, etc) as a progression into the bench press?
    I wouldn't recommended assisted push ups as a bench press substitute. If strength is really limited, one could theoretically bench press with a broomstick. The limiting factor with obese trainees is their comfort level in lying flat on their backs.

    Quote Originally Posted by athlegan View Post
    Could you elaborate on this please? I'm curious about the difference in stimulus and the rep ranges.
    We're not looking to prolong their progress on the leg press. We want them to build muscle faster so that they can switch to the squat ASAP. Using sets of 8-12 on the leg press gets them ready to squat faster than sets of 5 will.

  9. #19
    Brodie Butland is offline Starting Strength Coach
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    Quote Originally Posted by kins View Post
    I didn't say that. I said that it's retarded to tell someone to avoid doing cardio and focus on strength when they are obese. Plus it's more than likely that they have a history of heart disease, diabetes, and stroke in their family history. With that history and being obese at the same time, fat loss should be the main objective, not strength. It makes more sense to lose the fat first, get healthy, and then concentrate on strength.
    And your position is that strength training is inferior to "cardio" (by which I assume you mean LSD cardio) in mitigating insulin resistance and other metabolic problems associated with obesity? I'm sure you have a well-researched foundation for this, right?

    Is it also your position that weight training does not provide any meaningful cardiovascular endurance?


    Of course it's more difficult if you are fat. How can you say that you are "less limited" in weight training than "most" other activities. "Impossible to run when your are obese, hard to walk, hard to do everything."?. Come on now, and it's going to be easier to train with barbells?. Doubtful. Using barbells with correct form takes a lot more skill than walking or running. You've been walking and running since you were say 3 years old. So which is easier?.
    Walking and running have much greater impact on joints than squatting and deadlifting. Which makes sense, since you're actually impacting in walking and running, whereas you have no impacting in properly performed squats, deadlifts, and presses. That alone suggests that obese trainees will experience less of a problem with weight training compared to long walks or runs.

    Then there's also the discouragement factor, as Nick has already pointed out. Even relatively healthy people can get grueling shin splints after speed walking or running...obesity dramatically compounds the problem. Compliance is the single biggest factor that will determine if an obese person can change his or her lifestyle, and many SSCs have observed that for obese people, compliance seems to be higher doing weight training than for other types of activities, and it also is effective in losing body fat.

  10. #20
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    It's true. When you do the starting strength program as you go through your warm up sets and then through your work sets you can feel your entire body including your heart and lungs are getting stronger and healthier. There is no need to do the cardio vascular training the way we have been taught to by the modern industry. If you are doing the program right and eating really well and then living normally by staying active and doing your chores walking with the dog and enjoying time with friends and family you will keep getting stronger and healthier.

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