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Thread: Starting Strength for the Obese Trainee

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by kins View Post
    Besides someone that weighs 350 is going to have a hard time with barbell exercises, just like explained in the article. Cardio shouldn't be specifically excluded.

    ...Come on now, and it's going to be easier to train with barbells?. Doubtful. Using barbells with correct form takes a lot more skill than walking or running. You've been walking and running since you were say 3 years old. So which is easier?.
    Do you even know obese people? Frankly, the only thing that matters is compliance -- everything else is basically a rounding error. Cardio is by far the hardest path to compliance. Why? Because it requires fairly high intensity and/or volume to be effective, can actually reduce your metabolism AND (as if that isn't enough) seems to be incredibly misleading to your brains natural hunger response. Not only will very obese people tend not to lose weight (let alone fat) on cardio -- they'll often GAIN weight. They aren't in shape to do cardio that burns significant calories, and after a fairly light session of it, they'll tend to reward themselves with a surplus of calories.

    If they do get through the first couple of weeks without falling into that work/reward trap, they'll often discover they still haven't made progress. The thing is, your body tends to want to maintain weight. It's pretty wild if you live through it. Before I found SS, I decided it was time to lose my college... 45 ... by doing whatever the hell it took. I had tried dieting before, and like most people gave up when I didn't see results in a few weeks of what felt like killing myself. This time I was going to stick it out no matter how long it took. Here's what happened. I ate 1800 calories/day as a 6' 225 lb man. I was starving and cranky almost every minute. I started running 2-4 times a week. I hate running. I couldn't run a mile to start, but after a few weeks I could run 1.5 miles. A month into this I weighed myself and I had lost less than a pound. You can't imagine what that's like. This is where most people give up. They're genetically fat. There's obviously nothing they can do. If that's not enough, what the hell is? I didn't give up because I had made a promise to myself. A month later (2 months in) I had lost 10 pounds. I felt weak. My heart felt weak. But at least I had proven I could lose the weight. I moved up to 2100 calories a day, started adding in "strength training" (putsing around on dumbbells and machines) and kept losing about half a pound a week until I ended up 194 and found SS.

    Contrast that with SS so far. I'm only 2.5 weeks in. I started out eating 2800 calories. I moved up to 3000 calories when I didn't gain any weight. I'm moving up again to 3200 this week. I'm over full every second of every day. My squat is up from 115 to 185. My DL is up from 215 to 280. My Press is up from 85 to 110. I've had lower back problems most of my life -- and actually tweaked it pretty bad at the unofficial start of SS 3 weeks ago by being an idiot on squat. But now that constant discomfort is totally gone -- instead replaced by the burn of accomplishment deadlifts give me. Oh and I've lost a pound.

    While I obviously wasn't morbidly obese, my family has a history of it. I know they go through similar failed diet/cardio attempts many times per year. They watch long distance runners eat 5,000+ calories a day and look like twigs and conclude running is the path to weight loss, not understanding just how different walking a few miles a day is from running 40 miles a week with a well trained metabolism. And just how easy it is to undo all your progress with a couple handful of doritos. I won't suggest you're retarded for telling them to skip strength training and just do cardio and eat less -- but you ARE cruel AF.

    I bought my 290 lb family member the Barbell Prescription, and he's been able to do all the exercises just fine. If you can't, I recommend seeing a SS coach and figuring out how to get you to where you can. Because there's no diet on the planet that can give you progress like Novice LP. And progress is the first and by far most important step toward compliance.

  2. #22
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    Walking and running have much greater impact on joints than squatting and deadlifting. Which makes sense, since you're actually impacting in walking and running, whereas you have no impacting in properly performed squats, deadlifts, and presses. That alone suggests that obese trainees will experience less of a problem with weight training compared to long walks or runs.
    100% truth. I started SS in early September never having lifted weights before. I'm 57 5'11", in July I weighed 447. I have COPD, and mild emphysema. while I can do some cardio I really do not like it and avoid it as much as possible. But I have also discovered that since beginning SS and proper diet ( keto for me ) I have more energy, can walk farther longer, and I do not get winded as much as before. If I had rely on Cardio only it would be a much different picture. my biggest issues right now are proper form. my squats are getting better, Deadlifts are not an issue, but bench press makes my lower back hurt, and I am sure that is form related or not warming up enough before lifting. anywho, sorry for rambling. but I just wanted to chime in and say I disagree that cardio should be more important than lifting.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by dhurstell View Post
    I wear compression clothes under my workout clothes, and plan to in the future to prevent the skin from moving around.

    As a 5'10 315lb trainee, I'll deal with loose skin if I have to, but in an ideal scenario I'll fill that loose skin out with muscle, and the rest of it will just contract and adjust as a living organism should.

    I'm using a cheapo $15 velcro belt at the moment, and the only problem is that I'm getting too small for it. No point in spending $100+ on a leather belt I'm going to be too small for in a few months.
    I bought a nice leather belt early on. I has my 'war record' on it. Each notch i need to be put in was worked for and it provides a clear and trackable waist measurement. (you know if it is up or down)

  4. #24
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    I would rather take advantage of calorie partitioning to contribute to my body and strength in a positive way rather than just burn more calories. I would rather use wood to build a shelter to keep out the elements (and then worry about lighting a fire) than light a fire every day to try and stay alive. . .only to have to relight it every time it rains. A crappy metaphor for this discussion.

  5. #25
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    A bit late to the overall party but I'll toss my story on the fire as it might help others.

    Summer 2015. Age: 53. Weight: >365lbs (no actual solid data on how heavy I was but that was the last recorded weight for me earlier that year at a doctor's office). Height: 6' 2". Hypertensive, pre-diabetic, etc. I pilot a desk all day, every day, as an IT manager. I rode the bus or drove everywhere. I started having a lot of sharp pain L4/L5 and landed in a spinal orthopedist's office (eventually). You can guess the diagnosis. Spinal stenosis, arthritis, spinal degradation, bulged L3/L4/L5 disks. Doc puts it out there plain and simple. If I keep going where I am going I will be unable to walk much, if at all in about five years and will likely be dead within seven. Then he does what no other doctor had ever done before. He gave me tools. He suggested a diet plan and pointed me at MFP to start logging what I ate. I downloaded the app before I left the parking lot and started logging the next day. A Fitbit followed soon after. I didn't modify anything for a couple days because I didn't believe I was eating that badly. I was, of course, dead wrong. A blast of cortisone in the spine takes care of the pain.

    Because I didn't know any better, I began walking at lunch and did a total overhaul on my diet (this later would send me into the land of malnutrition but I am getting ahead of myself). The first week I made it about a half mile, had to sit down and rest, and barely made it the half mile back to my office. I was drenched in sweat and exhausted. Over the next six months I kept at it, walking five-six days a week until I was walking a 5K at a good clip (>3 mph according to my Fitbit) five to six days a week. My knees and ankles have been so abused by my weight that running wasn't really a consideration.

    The weight came off, fast. Probably too fast. People started asking if I was "sick" (euphemism for cancer, I think). I am feeling pretty darn good (felt great at the time) and once again buying clothes off the racks that aren't in the "big and tall" section. The first time I bought a new winter coat off that wasn't in the big and tall or mail order I was in tears. It had been more than 20 years since I had done that.

    Then I hit around 275 and the weight stopped coming off. According to my Fitbit even pushing at a 3.5 mph pace my heart rate didn't elevate much. I started carrying dumbbells then a weighted backpack but very rapidly any heart rate increase I could cause would level out. I finally got below 265 lbs but my annual blood work was a mess and I wasn't feeling all that great. I was off into the land of malnutrition. Turns out 2000 calories a day with all that activity was destroying my body. I spent a few hours talking to a friend who is a nutritionist and they tweaked my diet up to 2500 calories and adjusted the macros (increased carbs and fat, held protein).

    Spring 2016 I had to have my left shoulder rotator cuff repaired. I weighed 273 lbs when I checked in at the surgery center. I was feeling better because my nutrition was closer to correct. Surgery and initial recovery were normal. PT was where things changed. My PT wanted not just range of motion like my prior rotator cuff PT had wanted. He wanted ROM and weight bearing capacity. This was all bands, body weight, some dumbbells/kettlebells and some machine work...but I discovered I liked weight training...a lot! My weight started climbing again but I resisted the urge to cut calories suspecting that the gain was muscle mass, not fat. A quick check with the nutritionist and some tweaks to macros and bumping up the calories again and I was off to the races.

    The next several months I got into TRX then Sandbags (which are a lot of fun and I still enjoy the work). Then I found Starting Strength 3rd edition earlier this year and my world changed. When Barbell Prescription came out I devoured that as well. I had never, ever done any formal weight training. I was told at a young age I had a bad back (discovered after a bad skiing accident left me unable to walk without massive pain for a couple wekes) and that I would not be able to lift heavy things, ever. Damn.

    Today, my home gym build out is underway while I do what I can with low ceilings and tight space in the house (the gym bro factor in the campus gyms is far too high for me to tolerate...I tried, but no way). Right now I am limited on my squats to my heaviest sandbag (130 lbs) in a weird goblet-esque squat. DL was 295 lbs for five this morning. Due to shoulder issues I've been avoiding the overhead work but am checking on that and will probably play and see if the docs are wrong about that too. Bench will come when the rack gets built (hopefully this weekend). Body weight has stabilized around 295. I've lost 8% body fat over the last year down to 29% and falling (I get tested in a body pod six times a year through a research program here on campus) but my body weight hasn't really fluctuated and solid mass has gone up, as one would expect.

    Would my path have been different if I had gone under the bar at 375? I don't honestly know. I most probably wouldn't have wandered off into the land of malnutrition.

    By most estimates I am still obese so that makes me an obese trainee, I guess. My GP likes to tell me I am obese, then he laughs because he knows how ludicrous the BMI charts are and he has seen me at my worst. My A1c is now low normal. I once again am hypertensive because they decided to drop the threshold of hypertension, whatever. As my numbers show, my body fat % is dropping as my solid mass % climbs.

    I am stronger now than I have ever been in my entire life and realizing that I allowed misinformation and ignorance to steal almost 40 years of my life. I don't know where LP will end (do any of us?) but I am determined to figure that out and see just how strong this "Elderly, obese" body can get.

    I am also a volunteer EMT in the small town where I live. The other night as I was helping carry a patient out of their house on a gurney I started grinning...because I had the heavy end of the cot...only it wasn't heavy. Awesome.

  6. #26
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    Mar 2017
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    That is so great, man.

    Good work. Keep it going.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin.Imel View Post
    A bit late to the overall party but I'll toss my story on the fire as it might help others.

    Summer 2015. Age: 53. Weight: >365lbs (no actual solid data on how heavy I was but that was the last recorded weight for me earlier that year at a doctor's office). Height: 6' 2". Hypertensive, pre-diabetic, etc. I pilot a desk all day, every day, as an IT manager. I rode the bus or drove everywhere. I started having a lot of sharp pain L4/L5 and landed in a spinal orthopedist's office (eventually). You can guess the diagnosis. Spinal stenosis, arthritis, spinal degradation, bulged L3/L4/L5 disks. Doc puts it out there plain and simple. If I keep going where I am going I will be unable to walk much, if at all in about five years and will likely be dead within seven. Then he does what no other doctor had ever done before. He gave me tools. He suggested a diet plan and pointed me at MFP to start logging what I ate. I downloaded the app before I left the parking lot and started logging the next day. A Fitbit followed soon after. I didn't modify anything for a couple days because I didn't believe I was eating that badly. I was, of course, dead wrong. A blast of cortisone in the spine takes care of the pain.

    Because I didn't know any better, I began walking at lunch and did a total overhaul on my diet (this later would send me into the land of malnutrition but I am getting ahead of myself). The first week I made it about a half mile, had to sit down and rest, and barely made it the half mile back to my office. I was drenched in sweat and exhausted. Over the next six months I kept at it, walking five-six days a week until I was walking a 5K at a good clip (>3 mph according to my Fitbit) five to six days a week. My knees and ankles have been so abused by my weight that running wasn't really a consideration.

    The weight came off, fast. Probably too fast. People started asking if I was "sick" (euphemism for cancer, I think). I am feeling pretty darn good (felt great at the time) and once again buying clothes off the racks that aren't in the "big and tall" section. The first time I bought a new winter coat off that wasn't in the big and tall or mail order I was in tears. It had been more than 20 years since I had done that.

    Then I hit around 275 and the weight stopped coming off. According to my Fitbit even pushing at a 3.5 mph pace my heart rate didn't elevate much. I started carrying dumbbells then a weighted backpack but very rapidly any heart rate increase I could cause would level out. I finally got below 265 lbs but my annual blood work was a mess and I wasn't feeling all that great. I was off into the land of malnutrition. Turns out 2000 calories a day with all that activity was destroying my body. I spent a few hours talking to a friend who is a nutritionist and they tweaked my diet up to 2500 calories and adjusted the macros (increased carbs and fat, held protein).

    Spring 2016 I had to have my left shoulder rotator cuff repaired. I weighed 273 lbs when I checked in at the surgery center. I was feeling better because my nutrition was closer to correct. Surgery and initial recovery were normal. PT was where things changed. My PT wanted not just range of motion like my prior rotator cuff PT had wanted. He wanted ROM and weight bearing capacity. This was all bands, body weight, some dumbbells/kettlebells and some machine work...but I discovered I liked weight training...a lot! My weight started climbing again but I resisted the urge to cut calories suspecting that the gain was muscle mass, not fat. A quick check with the nutritionist and some tweaks to macros and bumping up the calories again and I was off to the races.

    The next several months I got into TRX then Sandbags (which are a lot of fun and I still enjoy the work). Then I found Starting Strength 3rd edition earlier this year and my world changed. When Barbell Prescription came out I devoured that as well. I had never, ever done any formal weight training. I was told at a young age I had a bad back (discovered after a bad skiing accident left me unable to walk without massive pain for a couple wekes) and that I would not be able to lift heavy things, ever. Damn.

    Today, my home gym build out is underway while I do what I can with low ceilings and tight space in the house (the gym bro factor in the campus gyms is far too high for me to tolerate...I tried, but no way). Right now I am limited on my squats to my heaviest sandbag (130 lbs) in a weird goblet-esque squat. DL was 295 lbs for five this morning. Due to shoulder issues I've been avoiding the overhead work but am checking on that and will probably play and see if the docs are wrong about that too. Bench will come when the rack gets built (hopefully this weekend). Body weight has stabilized around 295. I've lost 8% body fat over the last year down to 29% and falling (I get tested in a body pod six times a year through a research program here on campus) but my body weight hasn't really fluctuated and solid mass has gone up, as one would expect.

    Would my path have been different if I had gone under the bar at 375? I don't honestly know. I most probably wouldn't have wandered off into the land of malnutrition.

    By most estimates I am still obese so that makes me an obese trainee, I guess. My GP likes to tell me I am obese, then he laughs because he knows how ludicrous the BMI charts are and he has seen me at my worst. My A1c is now low normal. I once again am hypertensive because they decided to drop the threshold of hypertension, whatever. As my numbers show, my body fat % is dropping as my solid mass % climbs.

    I am stronger now than I have ever been in my entire life and realizing that I allowed misinformation and ignorance to steal almost 40 years of my life. I don't know where LP will end (do any of us?) but I am determined to figure that out and see just how strong this "Elderly, obese" body can get.

    I am also a volunteer EMT in the small town where I live. The other night as I was helping carry a patient out of their house on a gurney I started grinning...because I had the heavy end of the cot...only it wasn't heavy. Awesome.

  7. #27
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    Jan 2018
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    From my casual experience with maybe a dozen obese friends and colleagues who've tried various times to get in shape, strength training with free weights seemed to be the best for morale and compliance.

    1) The ones who were even a little physically active (yard work, child care, etc) were all a lot stronger than they expected, which was a huge encouragement. The main discouraging things I saw with strength training were the social aspect of going to a gym (feeling self conscious, being stared at, etc.) and being overwhelmed or intimidated by the complexity and variety of techniques/methods.

    Cardio, on the other hand, most of them were even worse at than they expected. After a few minutes of light activity, they feel like they are dying.

    2) If they could put on some muscle, they could lose more fat without restricting their diet so severely.

    3) Just losing weight, it seems like none of them ever got to a point where they were "thin enough" to be happy with their body. The ones who got stronger, maybe they were still at least 100 pounds overweight but they could be more active and do more stuff, and actually enjoy what their body could do.

  8. #28
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    May 2019
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    I hate to revive an old thread, but I just had to add my two cents.

    Quote Originally Posted by kins View Post
    Come on now, and it's going to be easier to train with barbells?. Doubtful. Using barbells with correct form takes a lot more skill than walking or running. You've been walking and running since you were say 3 years old. So which is easier?.
    It absolutely is easier for an obese person to do barbell training than to go running. The barrier to running for obese people is not skill - it's pain. Barbell lifts can be learned - that barrier can be quickly overcome with practice. The pain barrier to running cannot be overcome quickly. If a person is so obese that they do not have the range of motion to do barbell lifts, then it is going to be even harder for them to run or walk.

    Quote Originally Posted by kins View Post
    Besides someone that weighs 350 is going to have a hard time with barbell exercises
    That's nonsense. I'm 345lbs and have no problem performing any of the lifts.

    I'm 6'3" and at my peak, I weighed 370lbs. That was a little over a year ago. I thought I could cardio (and diet-restrict) my way to weight loss, but I couldn't run more than 100m without feeling like I was going to collapse, and I couldn't jog any meaningful distance without getting shin splints. So I settled on doing cardio with less joint impact and bought a rowing machine, with the plan of shedding a bunch of fat and then starting on strength training afterward. I started out doing high-intensity intervals (30 seconds, 30 seconds rest) for 30 minutes, 6 times a week. And I was able to lose some weight doing that, for a time. But after a couple months, I couldn't keep up the 6 days per week anymore - I just felt fatigued all the time. So I cut it back to 3 days per week. After 6 months of this, I had lost 40lbs, but I plateaued. I couldn't get past the 330lb mark - my weight would just bounce around between 330 and 335. And I felt terrible. I was constantly fatigued and hungry and it was a struggle to get motivated to even start a rowing session, let alone complete it. Not to mention that my back never felt good (I've had problems with back pain for years). Then I caught a nasty cold which put a stop to my rowing for a month, and then I just couldn't find the motivation to get back to it.

    Then in March this year, I ended up getting a copy of Starting Strength 3rd Edition. I bought a rack, a bar, some bumper plates, some foam floor pads, and started doing the novice program March 28th. Initially, my squat and deadlift were 135lbs, my bench was 85lbs, and my press was 75lbs. Today, two months later, my squat is 230lbs, my deadlift is 280lbs, my bench is 160lbs, my press is 110lbs, and I can power clean 110lbs. I'm stoked to get under the bar every day that I lift. It's a challenge, but it's a fun, rewarding challenge, not a brutal slog like a 30 minute rowing session. My back pain has disappeared, I have way more energy, I'm not lethargic and hungry all the time (I actually have to force myself to eat more to get enough protein), and my weight is holding steady around 345lbs even as my lifts progress. Motivation is not a problem at all. I feel so much better now. Sticking with this program is easy.

    Your idea to "lose all the fat first, then do strength training" is a prescription for failure. I know this from experience. It's just not sustainable. It takes so long to see any tangible results from a cardio and diet regimen, and for someone who needs to lose 100lbs of fat, that's basically a program with no end in sight. But with strength training, you can see results every time you lift.

  9. #29
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    Apr 2021
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    Princeton, NJ
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    starting strength coach development program
    Since Power Cleans are not recommended for the obese trainee and I am unable to do Chinups, what I can do when not deadlifting?

    Barbell Rows? Lat Pulldowns?

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