Just another olympic weightlifting log...

[StrongLiftMyBalls]

Have you ever thought about using a more "normal" start position in order to get your lifts to a more normal proportion relative to your squat?

Yes.. Do please continue.

Also please tell the nice audience what your Oly numbers are relative to your PL numbers.

[BH0917]

Please explain normal in both circumstances. And please explain to me why I should care about a proportion.

Well I don't suppose there really is ONE normal way to pull, however you seem to start with your hips quite a bit higher than average.

And I would think one might care about proportion if they were trying to lift as much as possible. In your case, your squat is quite good, but you lifts are very low in comparison.

For instance your squat is 240kg I believe, yet your snatch is only 110kg. Others who squat the same as you snatch 160kg or even more. To me this means that they are more efficient,using better technique to lift more weight without being actually being stronger than you. And the goal is to lift the most weight, right?

A 110kg snatch compared to a 160kg snatch is worlds apart, like comparing a national champion to a beginner who cannot yet even qualify for nationals.

So I am wondering if, because of this, you had ever thought about trying out a more normal starting position in order to make better use of your squatting strength?

[Immortal_k]

I'm sure he would do exponentially better if he high bar squatted, stopped deadlifting, and used an S curve. Yes, I'm being sarcastic.

I hope to make a minor contribution in demonstrating the conventional weightlifting wisdom wrong.

[BH0917]

Yes.. Do please continue.

Also please tell the nice audience what your Oly numbers are relative to your PL numbers.

I have never done powerlifting, so I really can't.

I am/was an average lifter at best. Certainly not as strong as some. A number of years back, I did 130/145 on snatch and clean and jerk. Could clean more, but was very limited on the jerk. The most I ever squatted was 190, although probably could have done a bit more considering I did 180 for a set of 5.

Now with a job, mortgage, kids, and limited to training a couple of times a week, I can still do around 120/145, although the cleans are much harder. Still limited somewhat by the jerk. A bit weaker than I used to be on the squat even though my body weight has crept up a little.

I am not sure how this affects my comments on this log, but there you have it. I am just another average guy who once dreamed of being the next Mark Cameron but got slapped in the face by the realities of adult life and my own physical limitations.

[steven-miller]

Well I don't suppose there really is ONE normal way to pull, however you seem to start with your hips quite a bit higher than average.

If you cannot even define the boundaries of normal technique you cannot possibly qualify mine as anomalous.

The reason for the start position as I execute it is to have the bar path converge closely to a vertical line over the middle of the foot. There are a number of reasons why this makes sense. You might want to go to the resources section of this forum and read up on those reasons.

And I would think one might care about proportion if they were trying to lift as much as possible. In your case, your squat is quite good, but you lifts are very low in comparison.

For instance your squat is 240kg I believe, yet your snatch is only 110kg. Others who squat the same as you snatch 160kg or even more.

You are quite likely making the mistake of comparing a high-bar squat : snatch ratio with a low-bar squat : snatch ratio. For the vast, vast majority of lifters the former is going to be substantially lower than the latter if both are practiced to the same degree. So your argument is obviously invalid.

Other factors play a big role in this, too, but I do not need to bring them up because of how big a flaw that point is in your argument.

To me this means that they are more efficient,using better technique to lift more weight without being actually being stronger than you. And the goal is to lift the most weight, right?

I explained above why a guy squatting 240 high-bar is stronger than I am. But furthermore you hit the nail in the head with the second sentence. The variable to be optimized in training is weight lifted in the competition lifts. Ratios of exercise performances are not what is to be optimized (or worse: normalized).

A 110kg snatch compared to a 160kg snatch is worlds apart, like comparing a national champion to a beginner who cannot yet even qualify for nationals.

I am a weightlifting beginner. I have trained for the sport for ~9 months now and am coming out of a 3 months deload without practice in the competition lifts. Also, I snatched 117.5 kg in training before.
There may very well be people in the world who snatch 160 kg with a practice history comparable to mine, a low-bar back squat of 240 kg, with a bodyweight of 94-98 kg. But I don't know a single one and I can say with quite a bit of confidence that the vast majority of people with this amount of training perform substantially worse than me regardless of weight. So construing my case as evidence for the ineffectiveness of a "high-hip"-starting position fails on so many levels that it is not even funny.

So I am wondering if, because of this, you had ever thought about trying out a more normal starting position in order to make better use of your squatting strength?

I have pulled in many different ways, willingly and accidentally, including with a style that you think is "more normal". The style I currently use has, for me, been the most successful one and also the one that works most consistently. Also, unless you can present an intelligent argument of why a different starting position would enable me to make "better use" of the strength I have, I would ask you to exchange ideas with your equals or go back to the troll cave that you escaped from.

[BH0917]

Why the anger and combativeness? I was pretty polite to you. Since you were anything but back, let me be a little more blunt.

What i see is a pretty strong guy using pretty crappy technique, who therefore is doing beginner weights in the snatch and clean and jerk even though he is squatting really well.

I understand why you might take offense to someone questioning you if you were a good lifter doing impressive weights, but you are not. I do not understand how someone who admits he is a beginner, and must know his weights are low compared to what he could and should be doing, is so quick to take offense when someone with 20 times his training experience politely makes a point.

But each to his own. Just consider that you aren't getting any younger and the time that you have to reach your best performance is running out, one day at a time. At some point you are going to have to listen to someone, maybe find a coach, if you want to do your best.

Good luck.

[Immortal_k]

[Karl Schudt]

Eugene?

[StrongLiftMyBalls]

Pointless but ill say it anyway.

For a Point of reference, Clarence Kennedy a 94kg lifter in Ireland (almost won Bronze and 2012 Junior Weightlifting Champs) lifts 160(Gym PB) and 195 (again gym PB). He also back squats around 262.5kg for a single.

Not only does he squat 240 for reps but has also been training at very high intensity for around 4 years now.

So id say someone who weighs 94kg, back squats 240 for 1, and snatches 117.5kg after 9 months of training is doing JUST FINE.

Not to say he couldnt work on his technique, but who couldnt?

[steven-miller]

Eugene?

That is what I think as well. He had the same habit of fabricating information about his persona and made the same points without having an argument to support them. Role and username he chose for himself make it pretty clear that he is the same troll.