Once More. From The Top.

[Gary Gibson]

Glad to see you back, Gary. Why'd you switch to hi bar when your knees are so jacked up? I just ask because I know they beat the hell out of my knees, and low bar helps them.

Because squats are supposed to develop the knee extensors and not turn into good mornings.

"Fixing The Good Morning Squat"
"Hamstrings: The Most Overrated Muscle Group For The Squat"

My knees got beat up with years of good morning squats, too.

High bar carries over to everything: jumping, cleaning, jerking, snatching, low bar. I think a lot more people are realizing this.

Low bar is great for demostrating strength in a meet, however. Thus is nothing new. Lower the bar position and widen the stance a few weeks out from the meet, right?

[RussB]

High bar carries over to everything: jumping, cleaning, jerking, snatching, low bar. I think a lot more people are realizing this.

Low bar is great for demostrating strength in a meet, however. Thus is nothing new. Lower the bar position and widen the stance a few weeks out from the meet, right?

I don't know man, I once read this: "You will get very strong if you high-bar squat diligently, but you
will probably get stronger faster if you low-bar squat with 30% more weight using even more muscle
over a similar range of motion. It amazes me that I actually have to articulate this obvious fact."

Since when does stronger not carry over to the activities you mentioned?

I don't have the experience to really argue this (though I agree with old Gary, or should I say, young Gary), I just thought it was funny that the above quote was from you, considering your strong words to the opposite.

I know you're not yet satisfied with your squat, but it's 2xBW right? Nice work.

[Gary Gibson]

I don't know man, I once read this: "You will get very strong if you high-bar squat diligently, but you
will probably get stronger faster if you low-bar squat with 30% more weight using even more muscle
over a similar range of motion. It amazes me that I actually have to articulate this obvious fact."

Since when does stronger not carry over to the activities you mentioned?

I don't have the experience to really argue this (though I agree with old Gary, or should I say, young Gary), I just thought it was funny that the above quote was from you, considering your strong words to the opposite.

I know you're not yet satisfied with your squat, but it's 2xBW right? Nice work.

Here is an addition that comes from experience...

Squat in the manner that lets you use the most weight WHILE KEEPING YOUR TORSO AT AN ANGLE THAT KEEPS YOUR QUADS IN THE LIFT.

These parameters mean the higher bar position in the back squat for me. I could get even more upright on front squats, but then too much weight is sacrificed. If you have a higher torso length to femur length ratio, you will be able to low bar and keep a good back angle like the best powerlifters do.

Ignoring anthropometry means blanket recommendations that ill suit large segments of the population. Low bar can work very well for the body types most attracted to barbell lifting. Not so much for short backs attached to short legs as is the case with me.

Adding a belt now that I've hit 315/405. I declare: 405 back squat and 500 conventional pull on July 4.

[RussB]

I hear you. Just out of curiosity, have you tried squatting in the Tom Narvaez/hamburgerfan style? Might be unfair for me to lump them together since I haven't watched any recent vids from those guys, but I think they like going wide stance (not superwide, just wider than SS-style), upright torso, low bar position.

One question about squat technique; would the quads be left out of a low-bar, very horizontal squat even if the squatter didn't make the mistake of shooting the hips up when initiating the ascent? So, is it inherent in the horizontal back angle, or just a form fault that leads to quad neglect?

[Gary Gibson]

I hear you. Just out of curiosity, have you tried squatting in the Tom Narvaez/hamburgerfan style? Might be unfair for me to lump them together since I haven't watched any recent vids from those guys, but I think they like going wide stance (not superwide, just wider than SS-style), upright torso, low bar position.

One question about squat technique; would the quads be left out of a low-bar, very horizontal squat even if the squatter didn't make the mistake of shooting the hips up when initiating the ascent? So, is it inherent in the horizontal back angle, or just a form fault that leads to quad neglect?

If the hips move up and the bar doesn't, the quads have opened up the knee joint minus the resistance of the bar. The lifter has set himself up for a good morning.

If you have the anthropometry to put the bar lower on your back -- that is, if you have a long enough back to have room to effectively shorten it with a lower bar placement -- without getting bent over, go for it. I can't so I just keep simple and squat like a weightlifter.

[Dwayne_KONG_Wint]

First off, Welcome back on board Gary. Reading your previous logs inspired me to work through my own knee issues that I had a few years ago. Working through those issues helped me gain the confidence to work through any issue that I've encountered since. Thank you for that.

Second, could you explain what you mean here:

...the quads have opened up the knee joint minus the resistance of the bar...

I'm not understanding the "minus the resistance of the bar" part.

[Gary Gibson]

First off, Welcome back on board Gary. Reading your previous logs inspired me to work through my own knee issues that I had a few years ago. Working through those issues helped me gain the confidence to work through any issue that I've encountered since. Thank you for that.

Second, could you explain what you mean here:


I'm not understanding the "minus the resistance of the bar" part.

Knees extend + hips moved up + bar didn't = now set up to extend hips to move weight, aka good morning. It's a stripper squat.

And thanks!

[Gary Gibson]

2014-06-15
Back Squat, high bar, higher heels
45x15x2
135x5
(belt + wraps)
225x3
275x2
315x1
340x1
275x3x4

Bench Press, touch and go
105x6
135x5
155x3
175x2
195x1
175x5x2

Deadlift, conventional, low heels
315x3
(belt)
375x1
410x1
430xmiss

Dumbbell Row 100x8

I won't pretend today wasn't a huge disappointment. I got my PL belt back and expected 30-to-50-lb jumps on squats and deads.

I got maybe 10-20 lbs on the squat. I was probably good for 320 or 325 without the belt. 340 with it was really hard. Belt did let me do sets with 275 with really good form. Last set was fast and strong with no loss of back angle.

But those sets tired me out for bench and squats. I only got 5 lbs over my last pull even with the belt. I might have been good for 415, but had unrealistic hope about how much the belt would help and made a stupid jump.

[Gary Gibson]

2014-06-18
Bench Press, touch and go
55x10
95x10
155x5
175x3
185x2
205x1

Back Squat, high bar, high heel
65x10
155x5
(Wraps)
245x3
285x1
(Belt)
315

Russian Curl

Dumbbell Row 100x6x2

I cannot train after a long, humid workday. Only will have Friday or Saturday off from now on. So may finally be forced to cut back to one squat session per week.

Combo of Tiger Balm and BenGay Ultra covered by knee sleeves: knees feeling much better.

Back and forth between 155 and 160. Need to eat more. Need to rest more. Wasted my time lifting tonight in terms of inducing progress. I was getting dizzy today. Should have waited. Hope I'm ready Saturday. 9 weeks to meet. 6-8 more pounds of bodyweight and 60 pounds on the raw squat.

[Nick Klemetson]

Knees extend + hips moved up + bar didn't = now set up to extend hips to move weight, aka good morning. It's a stripper squat.

And thanks!

Except the back angle shouldn't change out of the bottom of a properly performed LBBS. If someone over-emphasizes the hip drive, this can happen (I used to do it), but if the back angle remains constant, the bar wouldn't stop on the way up.