Once More. From The Top.

[ColoWayno]

Does that 20 rep set with the bar help? I never feel like I get enough reps to be warmed up even though I usually do
2x5x45
1x5x95
1x2x135
etc. with singles on up.

[Gary Gibson]

Does that 20 rep set with the bar help? I never feel like I get enough reps to be warmed up even though I usually do
2x5x45
1x5x95
1x2x135
etc. with singles on up.

The bar is better than waving your arms and legs around. With the bar the lifter has to use the exact form he will during the actual work sets but there is not nearly enough weight to get the lifter tired.

The bar is the perfect stepping stone between walking/rowing general warm up and movement specific warm up. It sets the groove, gets blood exactly where it needs and doesn't fatigue.

Oh, by the way. This. Weightlifting is a sport, not a very smart way to get stronger. Squat, bench, row to get strong. Play your sport to get better/faster in you sport.

[John Hanley]

Oh, by the way. This. Weightlifting is a sport, not a very smart way to get stronger. Squat, bench, row to get strong. Play your sport to get better/faster in you sport.

Gary. Really? You're confident that - in terms of improvements in rate of force development - (slow lifts + competition movements) = (slow lifts + fast lifts + competition movements)?

[Gary Gibson]

Gary. Really? You're confident that - in terms of improvements in rate of force development - (slow lifts + competition movements) = (slow lifts + fast lifts + competition movements)?

Yep.

As confident as I am that speaking against training dogma in my training thread will invoke stretches of protesting posts in my training thread.

I've already got a page of howls about high bar vs low bar. I can take another for explosive lifting.

[John Hanley]

I'm not dogmatic, but I'll protest against the confidence (regardless where you post it). I'm confident you can't be confident, because it's not a known thing.

But it's comfy being certain, ain't it?

[Gary Gibson]

I'm not dogmatic, but I'll protest against the confidence (regardless where you post it). I'm confident you can't be confident, because it's not a known thing.

But it's comfy being certain, ain't it?

Whenever I step on somesomebody's cherished notion this is bound to happen.

Explosive lifting in general and power cleans in particular are high risk and low reward. I got plenty hurt lifting explosively and power cleaning. Got slower and less mobile because I always hurt.

What has worked best for my ability to jump high and be more agile has been high bar squats and practicing jumping and moving.

I don't blog to start arguments. I just hope my experience (backed by logic) helps other people avoid wasting time, energy and joint health.

[John Hanley]

Whenever I step on somesomebody's cherished notion this is bound to happen.

Explosive lifting in general and power cleans in particular are high risk and low reward. I got plenty hurt lifting explosively and power cleaning. Got slower and less mobile because I always hurt.

What has worked best for my ability to jump high and be more agile has been high bar squats and practicing jumping and moving.

I don't blog to start arguments. I just hope my experience (backed by logic) helps other people avoid wasting time, energy and joint health.

Good Sir, it's not my cherished notion. Take a peak at my log; very few explosive lifts. I have ~5% of clients lift explosively. The ones who do are competitive shotputters, linebackers, etc.

I agree with your risk vs. reward considerations.

BUT, based on anecdote, personal experience and case studies (check out the lifting/performance log of the great javelin thrower Seppo Raty), I think explosive lifting probably trains the selective recruitment of the highest threshold motor units (in a way that competitive movements and maximal slow lifts can't).

Is selective recruitment of the highest threshold motor units important to John or Gary. Fuck no. Low reward. But if one us were hoping to make the olympic trials in an event that demanded rate of force development...I think we'd be foolish to outright dismiss the preponderance of (admittedly low quality) evidence for the training benefit of fast lifts.

[Gary Gibson]

Good Sir, it's not my cherished notion. Take a peak at my log; very few explosive lifts. I have ~5% of clients lift explosively. The ones who do are competitive shotputters, linebackers, etc.

I agree with your risk vs. reward considerations.

BUT, based on anecdote, personal experience and case studies (check out the lifting/performance log of the great javelin thrower Seppo Raty), I think explosive lifting probably trains the selective recruitment of the highest threshold motor units (in a way that competitive movements and maximal slow lifts can't).

Is selective recruitment of the highest threshold motor units important to John or Gary. Fuck no. Low reward. But if one us were hoping to make the olympic trials in an event that demanded rate of force development...I think we'd be foolish to outright dismiss the preponderance of (admittedly low quality) evidence for the training benefit of fast lifts.

Nice! I'd be a fool to argue.

2014-10-23
Back Squat, high bar, no belt or wraps
45 x 10
135 x 8
225 x 3
250 x 6
255 x 6

Had a couple difficult customers today so decided to train at lunch to blow off some steam. I was going to squat tomorrow, but I may be traveling and then just too busy all weekend so decided this was a good time.

I improved first by 5 lbs then by 10 and with one more rep each set over last time. Had to push with everything I had on the sixth rep of 255. Was going to try for some back off sets for volume. But I was wiped out. Plus I did a bit of volume just a couple days ago. Next time.

Pushing my traps into the bar remains my best personal cue to keep my legs in the lift instead of doing good mornings on the hard reps.

[ColoWayno]

The bar is better than waving your arms and legs around. With the bar the lifter has to use the exact form he will during the actual work sets but there is not nearly enough weight to get the lifter tired.

The bar is the perfect stepping stone between walking/rowing general warm up and movement specific warm up. It sets the groove, gets blood exactly where it needs and doesn't fatigue.

Oh, by the way. This. Weightlifting is a sport, not a very smart way to get stronger. Squat, bench, row to get strong. Play your sport to get better/faster in you sport.

I don't really have a sport, unless you count 6 rounds on the heavy bag once a week or some frisbee toss as a sport. I snatch once a week, pretty conservatively, but I think it still helps in ways that playing a sport that requires explosive movement would... The whole experience of coordinating rapid muscle recruitment, reaction time, ground contact, not to mention confidence. Maybe it's mostly in my head but I think it makes my punches quicker and harder and foot work lighter and more natural.

[Les Hahn]

It was nice meeting you at the Body Shoppe today. Sheboygan isn't all that bad! :-) Hopefully we can lift together again before you leave Cheddarland.