Herbison's Training Log

[CamLeslie]

...getting in shape to train,... Taking 5+ minute rests to hit heavy weights works great and is fine so far as it goes. But needing to do so just to hit your normal work sets is counter-productive, at least past the novice stage. So my lifting right now is as much conditioning as actual strength training.

I'm all in on this with you. In the Baker Barbell Club we've been doing high incline treadmill walking and I swear that I am ready to go faster between sets. Gotta be in shape to train.

[Les Hahn]

Getting caught up on your log. First of all, congrats on the meet! Everything looked pretty good on the squat and bench. You were really strong. I think the last jump on deads was just a little too much, but I know you did it to try and get 1st place. Still, awesome lifting!

I agree about the conditioning thing. I've been doing 3:30 to 4 minutes on the clock and then going to lift. I used to rest a lot more, so at first it was tough. Now I am starting to get used to it. Between that and not having to wrap for squats, my workouts are a lot faster.

When is the next time you will be in WI? Maybe we can meet up and lift at my gym?

[Sean Herbison]

Getting caught up on your log.

Time to do the same, and that starts by realizing I forgot to log last Thursday before logging Saturday. Not much to it, as this was before our final pack-up and departure, but still.

Thursday, 7 September

Press: 110x8x4@7.5
Push Press: 187x3x4@7.5

Gotta be in shape to train.

Sucks to get to that point though. Oh well.

First of all, congrats on the meet! Everything looked pretty good on the squat and bench. You were really strong. I think the last jump on deads was just a little too much, but I know you did it to try and get 1st place. Still, awesome lifting!

I agree about the conditioning thing. I've been doing 3:30 to 4 minutes on the clock and then going to lift. I used to rest a lot more, so at first it was tough. Now I am starting to get used to it. Between that and not having to wrap for squats, my workouts are a lot faster.

When is the next time you will be in WI? Maybe we can meet up and lift at my gym?

Thanks, Les. Yeah, that last deadlift attempt wasn't smart, but I wanted to try for the win. I could've been cheap and changed my last deadlift attempt right before he lifted so he wouldn't have the chance to respond and bump his up to match, but the meet wasn't that serious. And I still would've had to pull 292.5 kg, and after that 2nd attempt, who knows? Very well might've missed it anyway.

And yeah, I noticed earlier that you're doing something like sets of twelve with four minutes rest. Sounds... not fun. I'm back from my deployment now, but I'll still be in Germany for almost a year. I'll probably visit family in WI when I get back though.

By the way, I'm glad you're sticking around. After Kong and Izzy said they were leaving, I was worried more would follow. I understand the reasons for the new rules, at least to an extent, but I don't like some of the outcomes from them.

[Sean Herbison]

Wednesday, 13 September

Deadlift: 485x2x4@8
Sumo Deadlift: 325x8x4@cardiosucks
Incline Press: 175x5x3@6.5? Wasn't really paying attention.
Chinup: BW+45, 12 total reps
Ab Wheel: 5x3

Sumo had me dying. With the whole "strength and conditioning" thing, I very much know which part I prefer working on. But they help each other, so...

By the way, does this way of logging weighted chins work better? Unlike JC's log (R.I.P.), as fun as it was, I try to keep mine relatively readable/clear of alphabet soup.

Thursday, 14 September

Press: 115x8x4@8
Push Press: 185x3x4@8
Assault Bike: 0:20/1:40x4

Had some moments of realization on the press, more to come in a separate post after this.

Accidentally turned a couple of the push presses into jerks, I need to stop doing that. I also need to figure out my grip, as I can't seem to get an efficient setup. I used to be a lot better at these, but now I can't seem to get the same snap out of the legs or an efficient force transfer. I'm consciously working on the former, but I think the latter is largely due to my grip/setup.

Saturday, 16 September

Squat: 275x8x4@bad
Front Squat: 185x3x5
DB Bench: 85sx9x4@9 average, 10 last set
Chinup: BWx6, 6, 5, 5, 5, 5

Squats didn't go well. Everything was creaking and popping, from my ankles and knees all the way up to my shoulders. This definitely affected my form, which was all over the place. 275 was supposed to be my last warmup set, and I just made it my working weight instead. I'm off work for a bit now, and I think I've been sitting *coughplayingSkyrimcough* a bit too much. Need to move around more throughout the day.

[Sean Herbison]

So, how about them presses, huh?

Well, I'm sure everyone reading this is at least aware of the two big threads about pressing. ... One of which, now that I'm checking for it, I see no longer exists. 120+ pages gone, many of which had thoughtful inputs and good information... well, that sucks. Huh. That kind of changes the direction this post was going to go.

Okay then. Hmm. I had this thought out, and now I'm stumped. Guess I'll wing it.

Well, unfortunately one of the two main threads I was going to point people to as references is no longer available, but my point remains the same. Debate is good. The Overhead Press has always been the lift I've been least sure about, in multiple ways. Unsurprisingly then, it's probably also my worst lift, now that I've gotten decent at benching. And while it's too early to tell, I think I may have finally, finally, started to have it click a bit.

How, you ask? Oh, you don't ask? Too bad, I'm going to tell you anyway. The answer is: Debate. Debate, and lots of thinking. Thanks to those two threads, and the very divisive Youtube video of Carl pressing, which is currently at 195 likes and 269 dislikes. Compare this to the normal ratio on Starting Strength videos, for example the most recent one on Rack Pulls, which is at 458 likes and only 8 dislikes.

Now, which of these videos is more useful? Eh, up to you. But which of these videos spawned more useful results? The one with all the dislikes. Why? Debate.

I've always had plenty of questions about the press. Is a floating rack good? Is the dynamic start cheating? How is it that different from a moderate push press? Does laying back take work away from the shoulders? Why do I seem to inevitably lay back whether I want to or not, when guys like Wolf and Jordan have such a strong upright lockout?

But with all those questions, I've never really had answers, and I've never really had to. Why would I? I can coach people to do a press well enough to get stronger and not hurt themselves, and presses aren't a competition lifts for me, so optimizing them isn't as important as the other lifts.

Now, though, with all the recent debate, I've been forced to clear out some of the fuzziness and start thinking through my assumptions on the lift. And when I say "forced to", I mean it. For a solid week, I was quite literally losing sleep over this. As in, I would lay down, try to clear my head for sleep, and instead think about whether layback is due to hip or lumbar extension, and whether/how much it matters, and whether the force applied to the bar changes, and whether shifting the body position adds the use of more muscle mass, or just shifts the muscle mass... for three hours. And then in the morning I'd start to type something up, realize I was still missing a piece, and go back to thinking about it more. And considering whether I even wanted to be involved in the debate or whether I'd just be this guy instead.

...


So after all that, what's my input regarding presses? ... I don't know. There's still more to consider, and like I said, I'm just starting to understand. This last Thursday was the first time I was ever able to successfully emulate Wolf's lockout, so I'm in no position to speak authoritatively. As it stands, I don't fully agree with one side or the other about how to press for general strength. Neither extreme, purposeful layback like Carl or saying layback is entirely useless like Cody.

But what's my overall input for this rambling post? Debate is good. Debate is helpful. Debate forces you to re-consider and clarify your own views. I wish that the Sumo Press thread hadn't been deleted, as that was the source of a lot of the questions I had to ponder, and I think it could've been useful in the same way for more people who hadn't already read it.



...
Sorry if this wasn't easily readable. I had a largely different layout for this post in my head, but it relied partially on that thread still being there. For anyone who actually took the time and effort to read all this, thank you.

Now time for me to shut up and go lift.

[Sean Herbison]

I had a largely different layout for this post in my head, but it relied partially on that thread still being there.

I realized after my first set of bench that I shouldn't have been surprised by this, as I'm pretty sure KotJ started that thread. This is one of the outcomes I don't like that I mentioned.

Monday, 18 September

T&G Bench: 240x6x5@8.5
CG Bench: 240x3x4@8
Barbell Row: 225x5x3@7.5
Hanging Knee Raise: BWx20x3

Moving to the next mini-block of training. Not much is changing, except that the four sets of eight are going to five sets of six, and I'm going to take three minutes rest for squat and deadlift instead of two.

Rows were better this week. I had a bit too much momentum for my liking last week, so I kept the weight the same. The only problem I'm having is that for some reason I'm afraid that letting it down fast will break the tile floor. I've set down 600 lb+ deadlifts on the same thin mats, from the same height, with the same speed, and I've had no problems there. But yeah, worrying about 225 seems reasonable.

[VikingCellist]

So, how about them presses, huh?

Well, I'm sure everyone reading this is at least aware of the two big threads about pressing. ... One of which, now that I'm checking for it, I see no longer exists. 120+ pages gone, many of which had thoughtful inputs and good information... well, that sucks. Huh. That kind of changes the direction this post was going to go.

Wow, completely deleted. I really don't see the necessity. What's the use? Still, thanks to google you can find the whole thing en cache if you search "sumo extreme layback,". Not sure how that works exactly, but it is probably not forever, but might be there for a while.

Now, though, with all the recent debate, I've been forced to clear out some of the fuzziness and start thinking through my assumptions on the lift. And when I say "forced to", I mean it. For a solid week, I was quite literally losing sleep over this. As in, I would lay down, try to clear my head for sleep, and instead think about whether layback is due to hip or lumbar extension, and whether/how much it matters, and whether the force applied to the bar changes, and whether shifting the body position adds the use of more muscle mass, or just shifts the muscle mass... for three hours. And then in the morning I'd start to type something up, realize I was still missing a piece, and go back to thinking about it more. And considering whether I even wanted to be involved in the debate or whether I'd just be this guy instead.

Well, if someone I respect had taken a swipe at me like that, I'd lose some sleep too.

But with all those questions, I've never really had answers, and I've never really had to. Why would I? I can coach people to do a press well enough to get stronger and not hurt themselves…

Certainly. In my session with you, I learned a utilitarian press and got enough information about layback to know how to keep really tight. I never really felt the need to try exaggerating the layback though since I'm just trying to get stronger.

I have been thinking I need to have you look at my bench press and since it's been over a year, probably my other lifts too. I wasn't sure about your location, but now it sounds like you'll be in Ramstein for a while. Is that correct?

[MBasic]

So, how about them presses, huh? . . .
. . . .I've been forced to clear out some of the fuzziness and start thinking through my assumptions on the lift. And when I say "forced to", I mean it. For a solid week, I was quite literally losing sleep over this. As in, I would lay down, try to clear my head for sleep, and instead think about whether layback is due to hip or lumbar extension, and whether/how much it matters, and whether the force applied to the bar changes, and whether shifting the body position adds the use of more muscle mass, or just shifts the muscle mass... for three hours. And then in the morning I'd start to type something up . . .

via Imgflip Meme Generator

(and I fucked up the spelling . . .again . . HEY, I CAN EDIT THO !!! )

[Sean Herbison]

it sounds like you'll be in Ramstein for a while. Is that correct?

I'll be in and out during October, but then I'll be around until June most likely.

Wednesday, 20 September

Deadlift: 495x1, 315x5x3
Sumo Deadlift: 315x6x3
Incline Press: 135x5x3

This sucked. I don't know what was going on, but I couldn't hit the weights/volume I was supposed to, and it wasn't even close. I'm guessing the inconsistency in my routine recently is part of the problem, so I'll fix that and see how things go. My weight got all the way down to 243 as well, so I'm sure that's helpful.

Thursday, 21 September

Press: 135x6x5@8
Push Press: 185x3x4@8
(Thruster: 185x1x2)
Assault Bike: 0:20/1:40x4

This was better than Wednesday, but I still can't figure out what's up with my push press. I know part of it is that I haven't prioritized overhead press at all recently, so that's down a bit, but that's clearly not the only problem. I even tested out with two thrusters, which I essentially never do, and they were way better. Even the second one, with a five-second pause at the bottom to kill the stretch reflex. There's no way that's how it's supposed to be.

If I still have problems next week I'll try to get some good video in case anyone has inputs.

[Sean Herbison]

By the way, I've been watching a lot of Jujimufu's videos, and he had nine of them recently with Clarence Kennedy. Definitely worth watching, and between this and reading most of his articles a couple months ago, I think there's actually a lot to learn from him.

Also, the video with Clarence are hilarious.



Also also, he recently got a kitten.