When to start programming haltings/rack pulls/deficit pulls?

[stronger]

Another idea is just to deadlift in a separate session. I typically do my squats and presses in the gym, and then do my pulling exercises in my garage later. I've found that the few hours often lets me recover enough to pull strong, and I have the added benefit of receiving precisely ZERO dirty looks when I set the bar down noisily.

How much do you weigh? 365x5 is a solid pull, but I wouldn't think you'd need anything fancy yet. Also, it doesn't seem wise to make programming decisions when you are aware that there are easily controllable recovery issues.

Unfortunately the garage gym is not an option for splitting up my workout. I would love to do that though.

I'm 20, 5'9 189-192lbs, 18% bodyfat. I'd like to push it to 215lbs @ 12% bf

[Platus]

For what it is worth, here's Rip's answer to a similar question last year:

Assuming your form is correct, your deadlift numbers should be up around 2x bodyweight before weirdness is necessary.

Original post: http://startingstrength.com/resources/forum/showthread.php?t=11899

[stronger]

Two things:

1) Sometimes deadlifting once a week gets to be too much to keep the week-to-week linear gains going; however,

2) That's also a helacious squat workout you just did before hand, and I'd almost guarantee that the fatigue is limiting your pull.

I don't think people need to think about completely dropping the pull from training in favor of special exercises until they're very, very strong. I'm talking well over 500 and probably over 600 before you'd even need to consider it.

I'd look more at fiddling with the loading parameters, specifically not kicking your ass with a squat workout before you try a deadlift PR. If you're set on doing squats, either do them light or do easier front squats. If it were me, I wouldn't squat at all beforehand.

If that doesn't work, then go through the rest of your troubleshooting process.

I might switch it around so that I deadlift before I squat on volume day. My reasoning is that the one set of heavy deadlifts will fatigue me less for a volume squat workout (which is 30lbs less than my 5RM) than volume squats will fatigue me for a 5RM deadlift attempt.

I would switch it to wednesday, where I squat 2 light sets and bench or press along with other assistance exercises, but I'm wondering if 370x5 deadlift would affect a 5RM squat attempt on friday. Creeping fatigue begins to play a factor and the length of time between a monday deadlift 5RM PR and a friday 5RM PR seems sufficiently long.

Deadlifting friday and powercleaning monday is unfortunately not an option, time wise. My monday workout is already 2.5 hours, and powercleans would lengthen that.

So, it remains to be seen if I can heavy deadlift before volume squatting and accumulate less fatigue than the other way around, thus enabling me to up my numbers.

I'm planning on deadlifting first tomorrow, I want to try for 405x1

[cjangelo]

I am interested in hearing how you attack this problem.

Me, I'd just deload. I followed a westside template for a long time, and then 5/3/1 for a long time as well, and every 3-4 weeks I'd just take 5 days off from the gym. Get my mind off it. Play a basketball game, stretch, take a nap, read a book, download porn--anything other than think about lifting weights. Then I'd feel good going back in and busting my ass for another period of time.

I'm not saying this is the correct answer. I'm saying this is generally MY answer.

[PMDL]

I might switch it around so that I deadlift before I squat on volume day. My reasoning is that the one set of heavy deadlifts will fatigue me less for a volume squat workout (which is 30lbs less than my 5RM) than volume squats will fatigue me for a 5RM deadlift attempt.

I would switch it to wednesday, where I squat 2 light sets and bench or press along with other assistance exercises, but I'm wondering if 370x5 deadlift would affect a 5RM squat attempt on friday. Creeping fatigue begins to play a factor and the length of time between a monday deadlift 5RM PR and a friday 5RM PR seems sufficiently long.

Deadlifting friday and powercleaning monday is unfortunately not an option, time wise. My monday workout is already 2.5 hours, and powercleans would lengthen that.

So, it remains to be seen if I can heavy deadlift before volume squatting and accumulate less fatigue than the other way around, thus enabling me to up my numbers.

I'm planning on deadlifting first tomorrow, I want to try for 405x1

Welcome to the world of priorities.

Sometimes you can't drive everything up at once.

[stronger]

life is so unfair

[zepled37]

I might switch it around so that I deadlift before I squat on volume day. My reasoning is that the one set of heavy deadlifts will fatigue me less for a volume squat workout (which is 30lbs less than my 5RM) than volume squats will fatigue me for a 5RM deadlift attempt.

I'm pretty sure I've read either in the books or on this forum that Rip would advise against this. Something along the lines of more concern about fatigue on the lower back prior to squats versus fatigue on lower back prior to deadlifts.

Not saying Rip's word is gospel like some do, but on this I would agree. I would only deadlift heavy first if I was going to do some light squats and I wouldn't count volume day as light. Still, there is an issue with fitting in the deadlifts. Somewhere you must compromise and make the most of it. Still, getting your recovery in order first is best.

[Mr.City]

Why not deadlift every other week?

[stronger]

Why not deadlift every other week?

also an option. I'd obviously like to make weekly progress as long as possible, but I may have to switch to that.

[Mr.City]

Well, you're deadlifting more than me, and I'm still a novice. I think you've hit the point of no longer being able to deadlift weekly anymore. In PP, the advanced novice routine calls for deadlifting 2-3 times a month, max.

I actually fucked up SS real bad by not knowing when to cut the deadlifts. I couldn't progress past 290 when I was deadlifting 1-2 times a week and overtrained myself really bad.