Someone please help my friggin' squat!!!!

[zepled37]

Whenever I go to a really low carb diet, my lifts stall, particularly my squat. Everything else is alright for a bit.

I've found I can lose similar weight by including some carbs in my diet without totally stalling my lifts. Granted, they aren't flying up as if I were chugging milk with every meal, but they don't totally stall. Now I will eat fruit in the morning, add a bit of carbs with lunch, and have a bowl of oatmeal with whey as my pre training snack on lifting days, as a minimum when trying to lean out. I'll cut it out during upper body days as the diet progresses.

I'd recommend giving a carb up a go.

5lbs over three weeks is significant fat loss IMO, it may not be crash dieting but it may be effecting recovery more than you may expect.

As to the question of programming for reduced recovery capabilities, I see it as a problem of creating a stimulus large enough to cause an adaptation that can be recovered from; at some point, you will need to do more work to progress that can be recovered from on a caloric deficit.

Another thing I think of is trying higher reps for a change. The extra work may be more conducive to dieting and you may be may be able to progress in a new rep range. Then switch back to 5s when you are done with your diet.

Just some thoughts.

I agree, the lack of carbs is somewhat at work here. I do have a weekly carb up meal as part of the diet plan and just had a good one the day before my last workout session. At this point, given my level of advancement (not in weight lifted which isn't great, but Rip's definition), I'd be quite happy with a stall and no further progress while dieting. I'm not expecting gains really while dropping fat though I've done it before long ago. But to actually regress so much seems silly especially when some of it has happened when not really dieting.

I'm a little afraid of the higher reps. One because higher intensity is generally needed to maintain strength and muscle and two, because higher reps will use more glycogen which will already be limited on the diet.

[zepled37]

what length of rest are you taking between sets? My observation is that too often people will short change their rest. As the weight gets heavier, you're probably going to have to rest longer.

Good question. I was taking quite long rests when on the texas method. I will admit to speeding up a little bit between the first few sets in the Starr program I'm on now, but then generally slow way down for the last few sets. This could be a minor factor in what I'm experiencing, but only doing this on the light weights should be too bad.

[isis]

Hi Zep,
I just read through your log. The last thing that was working for you was the TM with 5x5 on volume day. I don't see where you actually stalled, instead you had a couple challenging workouts and some sore knees so you decided to deload and make major program changes.

All your program changes have resulted in less squat volume at heavy weights. What was working was 5x5 with a heavy set on intensity day. The next program was 3x5 on volume day with light speed sets on intensity day. You didn't make any progress. Then ramped sets where you were doing only one set per week with a weight comparable to your former volume day weights. This made your squat strength start dropping. Lastly you cut squatting to only twice a week with only two heavy triples per week.

Probably your squat is regressing because it isn't receiving enough stimulation. With restricted calories you have to give your body a reason to maintain your squatting ability, or it won't.

[zepled37]

Hi Zep,
I just read through your log. The last thing that was working for you was the TM with 5x5 on volume day. I don't see where you actually stalled, instead you had a couple challenging workouts and some sore knees so you decided to deload and make major program changes.

All your program changes have resulted in less squat volume at heavy weights. What was working was 5x5 with a heavy set on intensity day. The next program was 3x5 on volume day with light speed sets on intensity day. You didn't make any progress. Then ramped sets where you were doing only one set per week with a weight comparable to your former volume day weights. This made your squat strength start dropping. Lastly you cut squatting to only twice a week with only two heavy triples per week.

Probably your squat is regressing because it isn't receiving enough stimulation. With restricted calories you have to give your body a reason to maintain your squatting ability, or it won't.

So, this is the most objective and logical suggestion yet. You are correct. I did not actually stall, but really felt completely worn out so stopped and tried to reset a bit. When starting back up, I made the changes you mentioned to try to help recovery and let my knees heal up. Perhaps I shouldn't have.

I've been going under the (possibly erroneous) assumption that too much work was being done when it is possible that not enough stimulation has been applied. One or the other has to be true...insufficient recovery or insufficient stimulation. Though your logic is undeniable, I honestly find it hard to believe that I am not in the insufficient recovery arena by the way I feel on the squats and based on my past experience with volume and overtraining.

This is definitely something to think about though. Maybe a light week or week off from squats completely and then back to the program I was on before and starting a little lighter is the ticket. How would I transition back to this program? I think I'm going to try a few other options first given the calorie restriction, but this post has my attention.

Another variable in this whole mix is to wear Do-Wins or Chucks. I've gone back and forth on this over the last couple months and I think my conclusion is that I'm ok in either one. All my TM progression was in Chucks and I've always like squatting in flat shoes, but the Do-Wins feel ok.

[isis]

Since fat loss seems to be one of your top goals at the moment, have you read through Johnny Pain's forum? There are some posts there on how to combine higher training volume with restricted calories.

About the shoes, your knees were hurting when you were doing TM in the Chucks. Have you tried that much volume in the Do-wins?

[zepled37]

Since fat loss seems to be one of your top goals at the moment, have you read through Johnny Pain's forum? There are some posts there on how to combine higher training volume with restricted calories.

About the shoes, your knees were hurting when you were doing TM in the Chucks. Have you tried that much volume in the Do-wins?

Thanks again, Isis. I have read through some of Johnny's forum, but not followed it as closely as the others. I gather he is mainly a carb cycling aficionado. I will have to search out some of the specific posts you mention. I'm assuming it is geared towards carbs around workout times.

On the shoes...I have not used the Do-Wins when doing 5x5 type of volume so cannot make that comparison, but again, it is an excellent question on your part. I think it wouldn't have mattered, but again, can't say for sure. The knee pain seems to have subsided for the most part. I think from the lower volume over the last few couple mostly.

Any other thoughts? You have great ideas.

[zepled37]

Isis and others...

Another thought...I'm pretty sure I posted this a long time ago either to Rip or on the other boards and didn't get favorable responses to the idea, but wonder about it again....

From what Isis observed, I seemed to do well on the TM with 5x5 volume day. Is it really necessary for this volume day to always be a PR attempt or to continually increase the weights. It seems like the volume itself does some good work even if the load is not increased every week.

For example, maybe I pick a weight that is 80 or 90% of my 5x5 best and do that for a few weeks keeping the rest of the workout the same? Rip seems to allude to this in PPST by mentioning that volume day weights may need to be lowered at some point, but haven't seen it discussed favorably here before. So a lighter 5x5 weight, but keep the rest of the TM programming the same? Maybe wave the volume day intensity (as percent of 5x5 best) like week 1 80%, week 2 90%, week 3 100%, week 4 85%, week 5 95%, week 6, 100%+ PR. Sort of a type of advanced programming by just changing volume day?

Thoughts?

[isis]

Since you're an intermediate, you are capable of increasing the weight from week to week, and that will lead to the fastest progress. If an intermediate does advanced programming, like your intensity cycling example, he or she can still progress, just slower, in the same way that a novice using intermediate programming progresses slower than a novice using novice programming.

[zepled37]

Thanks, I understand this point.

I guess my question is that in PPST in the Texas Method section, Rip talks about at some point, for some people, the intensity on volume day might have to be reduced in order to keep making progress, but should this just be viewed as a temporary reset and then start working back up on volume days as before to a new 5x5 max or might this be a more permanent or semi-permanent change to the program such that you actually use a lower intensity on volume days than what your capable of but continue to progress on intensity day?

This would mean that the work is still enough to drive adaptation, but the intensity is slightly lower so recovery is still possible. Weekly progress would just be attempted on intensity days at this point with a slower rate of progress on volume day because faster progress here would cause recovery issues.

Not sure if this question makes sense to anyone?

[isis]

I think what Rip means is a temporary reset and work back up. I think it's probably a good idea to use slightly less weight on volume day than you're capable of, but what you're capable of goes up each week so the volume day weight can still increase on a weekly basis. Getting the weekly increase right is the tricky part that takes either experience or experimentation.

Are you talking about increasing the volume workout 2 lb/week and the intensity workout 5 lb/week, for example? Seems like before too long that volume workout wouldn't be hard enough to spur progress on intensity day.