My 5/3/1 Variation (Karl's Method)

[Notrhwoods]

I might give this program a shot down the road. I did 5/3/1 for a while and came to the conclusion that I don't like AMRAP sets, this program could solve that problem for me.

As a general question, when you stall on this program is it usually on the 3x5 week or the 5/3/1 week? I ask because my bench spotter is a 125# female (my wife) and I don't want to ever miss a 1 rep bench attempt.

[Notrhwoods]

As a follow up, I am inclined to think that the 3x5 weeks will be the weeks you stall out on based on my experience with regular 5/3/1. I just want to confirm this with people who have experience with this particular program.

[Karl Schudt]

I always found if I made the 5s, I could make the 1s. At least until the very end of my run on the program, where I missed a 1rm squat a few cycles in a row.

[Adam Skillin]

Just want to notify the thread that I've been having great success with 5/1, and let you all know how I recently further bastardized the program to fit my needs.

Just sharing in case anyone wants to make use of any of the ideas. It's sort of a mashup between 5/1 and HLM. Critiques welcome too, always.

I'm doing 2 days a week. Mondays and Thursdays:

Mondays:
Squat 5/5/5+ or 1+/3/5+
Bench 5/5/5+ or 1+/3/5+
Deadlift 1 x 5

Thursdays:
Power Cleans 5 x 3 or similar
Squat 3 x 5 @ 75% of Training Max (same weight as first set of 5/5/5 day)
Press 5/5/5+ or 1+/3/5+
Chin-ups.

I use "fresher" percentages for 5/3/1, do it in reverse order, and AMRAP both the first and third sets.
I use "heavier" percentages for 5/5/5 and do it in the normal order, with AMRAP on the final set only.

[Nick Klemetson]

I use "fresher" percentages for 5/3/1, do it in reverse order, and AMRAP both the first and third sets.

Interesting. How have you found this has benefited you? What would a warmup sequence look like with a "1+" of 315 (for example) on the squat?

Warmup Set (?)
Warmup Set (?)
Warmup Set (?)
Warmup Set (?)
315x1+ (95% of TM?)
280x3 (85% of TM?)
250x5+ (75% of TM?)

It seems like your warmup sets and your 3 and 5+ sets could potentially overlap, unless you keep warmup sets limited to doubles.

EDIT: I may not understand "fresher" percentages correctly, but my main question still applies.

[Adam Skillin]

Interesting. How have you found this has benefited you? What would a warmup sequence look like with a "1+" of 315 (for example) on the squat?

Warmup Set (?)
Warmup Set (?)
Warmup Set (?)
Warmup Set (?)
315x1+ (95% of TM?)
280x3 (85% of TM?)
250x5+ (75% of TM?)

It seems like your warmup sets and your 3 and 5+ sets could potentially overlap, unless you keep warmup sets limited to doubles.

EDIT: I may not understand "fresher" percentages correctly, but my main question still applies.

Well, I'm only 1 cycle and change through this, so it's a little early to draw any sweeping conclusions.

If I remember correctly, my squat sets last 1/3/5 day were 375/335/295, and I did my last warmup @ 315 for a single.

[Christopher Miles]

For what it's worth, I've been doing the reverse order, using percentages based off my 1RM estimate from previous 1+ week for the weights. I changed over from the standard order 6 weeks ago after missing a DL rep I felt I should have gotten and wondering if it was because of the energy used on the earlier sets. Following switching I haven't missed the 3rd rep on a DL 1+ set yet. I just got back from Deadlift today, it looked like this -

Warmup set 60kgx8-10x2
warmup set 100kgx5
warmup set 140kgx2
warmup set 155kgx1
warmup set 180kgx1

195kgx1+ AMRAP (hit 3)
175kgx3
155kgx5

Next deadlift cycle will be based off 214kg estimated 1RM, but I'll stick with 5kg jumps on the 5+ and 1+ sets until I can't get them any more.

[RandallEW]

More than one way to skin a cat, for sure. I like ramping up because I know for certain that I am very warm and prepared for my top weight, assuming I have the strength to do it. However, I also like ramping back down through those sets when I think the extra work becomes necessary (Karl was doing that too, at times). In fact, that's probably where I'll end up eventually - ramping up as well as down - once I get further along. I don't like doing more work than required to make progress because, at 46, I'm prone to aches and pains that make the next workout, and even life in general, much more difficult.

[Adam Skillin]

More than one way to skin a cat, for sure. I like ramping up because I know for certain that I am very warm and prepared for my top weight, assuming I have the strength to do it. However, I also like ramping back down through those sets when I think the extra work becomes necessary (Karl was doing that too, at times). In fact, that's probably where I'll end up eventually - ramping up as well as down - once I get further along. I don't like doing more work than required to make progress because, at 46, I'm prone to aches and pains that make the next workout, and even life in general, much more difficult.

Randall -

Good thoughts. I may switch back to 5/3/1 order once I stall out and re-set. I made the order change on 5/3/1 day because I was about to reach the point where the 5- and 3- sets were jeopardizing my ability to make reps at the 1- weight, so I said to myself "Self, do the heavy single/double before you're too fatigued, you jackwagon."

I'm definitely not promoting this tweak for everyone, but it's allowing me to get some heavier reps in than I think I would otherwise, and maybe I'll actually get moderately good at recruiting some motor units in preparation for the competition I'm planning to enter.

(Then again, maybe Karl or someone else with some actual credentials will chime in and tell me I'm being an idiot and to quit all this nonsense. But for now, it seems to be working well for me, under my present conditions, with my current goals in mind).

[beasty boy]

Hey Karl... lately Ive been contemplating using the 531 on my MPs. But instead of basing my 75%, 85% and 95% on my actual 1RM I want to base it off of my actual body weight of 195lbs instead. what is your opinion on this. And how long do you have to really work the 531 in order to see real gains. My goal is to be able to press a single at 20-25lbs over my BW. and press my own BW for a set of 5 reps. so far my 1RM for a single press is 210lbs. would you please whip me up a nice MP routine

Military Press
145x5 74%
165x3 85%
185x1 95%
150x3 77%
170x3 87%

BW = 194lbs

heres what I did yesterday