Opinions about Westside method

[Bryan Dobson]

So where are all Louie's raw drug free lifters? Where's the Westside IPF team?

Interesting question is it not? There are some good things in this program and some garbage for a raw lifter. For a lifter not on gear the bulk of the volume comes from non specific movements, pros and cons to that but a lifter could just focus on non specific movements away from competition and get very specific in meet prep and accomplish the same things..I don't buy "accommodation" I do buy into over use injuries being bad, specific adaption being optimal for competition, and that bigger is generally stronger.
I think something like 531 or Andy Bakers powerbuilding program, would accomplish the same thing if variation and hypertrophy work is desired.

[pstein]

Westside's principles are great for lifters in multi-ply, untested federations. Bands/chains/boards/etc. are generally not useful for raw lifters, as they have different sticking points. I've nothing against multi-ply lifters. I don't find it interesting compared to single-ply/raw. Beyond Westside's issues with specificity (if you're raw, you need more exposure to the lifts than once or twice a training cycle), there's the issue that it really doesn't provide the volume you need to continue progressing. Most natural lifters aren't going to progress on 1-5 singles per week.

I think it's telling that Louie Simmons doesn't have IPF competitors at his gym. Beyond that fact, Westside can work for raw/single-ply with modification, but is it really Westside then? I would argue that it isn't. I find it telling that the IPF competitors who do use it (there are a few) strongly modify Louie's recommendations and often completely disregard "speed work."

The best IPF lifters don't generally use Westside. That should tell you something. I think Texas method/Juggernaut/Mike T's RPE program/Jamie Lewis/Sheiko are all far superior to Westside for the raw or single ply lifter.

[Dag]

Let's not confuse what people refer to as "westside " and what they do AT Westside. You can still use the basic principles but tailor them for your weak areas. In fact, the whole idea is to strengthen what's weak to make your powerlifts stronger. For a quick, obvious example that has been mentioned; 3 boards. That will, more than likely, not be particularly useful to a raw lifter. Soooo, a raw lifter wouldn't do those. He'd do something that strengthens where he's weak. Wide grips, inclines, close grips, floor presses, etc. If you're not a fan of speed work, or find it useless to you, Lou has said forever to do 5x5 or 6x6 with a heavier load. Speed work with chains and bands isn't an absolute and not doing them is still "westside."

At Westside, the gym, they train for what they do but that doesn't mean it's not adjustable. It's infinitely adjustable. And that where the problem is for most people that try to use it.

I do, however, think that box squats performed the way they do won't work for anyone other than geared lifters. The way they perform squats is almost a completely different exercise than the way a raw lifters performs it.

[Meshuggah]

Wide Stance Box Squats build hip strength better than anything else I've tried. My RAW, NO BELT Deadlift has benefitted greatly.
But... sheep are going to be sheep.

[Dag]

Sheep. That's funny. You clearly don't know me...at all.

[pstein]

Let's not confuse what people refer to as "westside " and what they do AT Westside. You can still use the basic principles but tailor them for your weak areas. In fact, the whole idea is to strengthen what's weak to make your powerlifts stronger. For a quick, obvious example that has been mentioned; 3 boards. That will, more than likely, not be particularly useful to a raw lifter. Soooo, a raw lifter wouldn't do those. He'd do something that strengthens where he's weak. Wide grips, inclines, close grips, floor presses, etc. If you're not a fan of speed work, or find it useless to you, Lou has said forever to do 5x5 or 6x6 with a heavier load. Speed work with chains and bands isn't an absolute and not doing them is still "westside."

What do you consider "Westside" vs. "Westside inspired?" What you're describing, making weak points stronger, is what the original Soviet conjugate method was. Louie's system is not the same thing, ignoring the fact that the Soviet system was designed for WL.

To me, Westside's principles focus on ME upper/lower and DE upper/lower, often with tons of assistance work.

[Meshuggah]

I wasn't singling any one person out.

[Dag]

What do you consider "Westside" vs. "Westside inspired?" What you're describing, making weak points stronger, is what the original Soviet conjugate method was. Louie's system is not the same thing, ignoring the fact that the Soviet system was designed for WL.

To me, Westside's principles focus on ME upper/lower and DE upper/lower, often with tons of assistance work.

Perhaps my wording was poorly chosen. Wouldn't be the first time, not even today.

I didn't mean westside inspired. I meant that people will look at videos or read articles on how they train at Westside Barbell in Columbus and see high board presses and box squats with a shit ton of band tension, for example, and think that's westside. It is because that's the name of the gym but you don't have to do those things to train in that fashion, as I explained in my other post. The exercises don't make the conjugate system, the training does. So absolutely they have DE days and ME days...what I'm saying is that you can choose the movements that will help YOU get stronger. What happens is that folks see the videos and read the articles and start doing what they see and when their raw lifts don't improve the immediate conclusion is that westside, or the conjugate system, doesn't work when in reality they chose the wrong movements.

I don't know if that clarifies anything or not. Probably makes it worse.

[Bryan Dobson]

" concurrent "

[marcf]

I think Westside is terrible for novices, and not so good for raw powerlifters.

A friend of mine in the gym hired Gracie Vanasse to coach and program him for a few months, and it was painfully obvious how little she knew about getting someone strong--especially a raw novice weighing in at 165lbs soaking wet. This kid can barely squat 290, benches 210 on his best day, and pulls about 360. Those are all 1RMs in pounds, not kilos.

And every day in the gym I'd see him doing max effort this, and dynamic effort that, and I'd make fun of the bands and chains he was always using. Eventually, he realized that the Westside conjugate method wasn't getting him anywhere and decided to move onto god knows what, but he wasted a few months and a few hundred dollars coming into the gym and doing bullshit like 160lb bench presses with bands for his "speed days," and high box squats with weights that he couldn't squat to real depth.