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Thread: Starr/Texas Method Hybrid

  1. #1
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    Default Starr/Texas Method Hybrid

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    So, I posted a question about missing reps on Starr 5x5, didn't get a response, so I'm trying a different approach. I'm considering trying a TM type intensity day scheme( rotating triples,doubles,singles), but continue to use ascending sets of 5 for light, and medium day, particularly for my squats. Looking for opinions, or maybe I'll just try it for a while and report back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BGish1984 View Post
    So, I posted a question about missing reps on Starr 5x5, didn't get a response, so I'm trying a different approach. I'm considering trying a TM type intensity day scheme( rotating triples,doubles,singles), but continue to use ascending sets of 5 for light, and medium day, particularly for my squats. Looking for opinions, or maybe I'll just try it for a while and report back.
    Why don't you try the following on HLM:

    Heavy day is intensity day (5RM or 2x3 or 5x1) followed by the first two sets of your 5x5 (around 90% of your first set). Light day is light day. Medium is the next three sets of your 5x5 (same weight as Heavy day backoff sets).

    Since you are already strong as fuck, it might not be enough volume for you, so you could maybe use some of TM's progressions on it, like cycling intensity day rep range, dynamic effort, maximum effort, you name it. PPST can help you navigate.

    Hanley, Cody, Gilchrest, where are you guys?

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    You could try what he said^ if it was me i would switch to madcow. A generic program but it is highly succesful and more in line with what you are thinking.

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    Thanks for the feedback. I should note that I ran TM last year with a decent amount of success. I followed the advice from PPST3. I used good perception and discretion for ID workouts, never missing reps, and established a satisfactory 1RM st the end of the cycle. I also reset my volume days back 10% twice in order to ward off fatigue. Thing is, when I attempted to set up another cycle, I reset my fives back to a somewhat conservative number, the weights felt much heavier than I expected. I stayed sore all week, managed only one new PR( not until I hit the first week of triples), and subsequently I ruptured my pec tendon while benching. I took a couple weeks off to contemplate surgery( decided against it, and just focus on pressing). I re entered training using an abbreviated LP, and to my surprise hit all kind of PRs for squat,DL, and press. This could be because I didn't milk my initial LP out with the taper the last few weeks, and I weighed about 35 more pounds than when I started my first SS LP. So now I've transitioned into Starr 5x5, have hit a couple of new PRs, but now progress is beginning to slow. I'll look up Madcow. I've heard of it, but not very familiar with it.
    Last edited by Bradley Gish; 02-02-2017 at 09:56 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BGish1984 View Post
    Thanks for the feedback. I should note that I ran TM last year with a decent amount of success. I followed the advice from PPST3. I used good perception and discretion for ID workouts, never missing reps, and established a satisfactory 1RM st the end of the cycle. I also reset my volume days back 10% twice in order to ward off fatigue. Thing is, when I attempted to set up another cycle, I reset my fives back to a somewhat conservative number, the weights felt much heavier than I expected. I stayed sore all week, managed only one new PR( not until I hit the first week of triples), and subsequently I ruptured my pec tendon while benching.
    Sounds like you were under recovered. Did you take a small deload or low stress week before beginning a new cycle?

    I took a couple weeks off to contemplate surgery( decided against it, and just focus on pressing).
    I remember reading about that in Rip's forum. How's that pec tendon doing now?

    I re entered training using an abbreviated LP, and to my surprise hit all kind of PRs for squat,DL, and press. This could be because I didn't milk my initial LP out with the taper the last few weeks, and I weighed about 35 more pounds than when I started my first SS LP. So now I've transitioned into Starr 5x5, have hit a couple of new PRs, but now progress is beginning to slow. I'll look up Madcow. I've heard of it, but not very familiar with it.
    Sounds like the weight gain and the added recovery of doing a short LP caused those PRs. Why did you transition to Starr 5x5? Why not HLM? I don't have my copy of Practical Programming on me right now, but is Starr 5x5 ramping 5s instead of 5s across? If you're stalling, it might not be enough volume. That'd be my best guess.

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    1.)The final week of my first cycle I did 355x5x5 on volume day, 1RM of 445 on intensity day. The very next week I reset my volume day to 325x5x5 and 360x5. My PR for a 5 Rm at the time was 385.

    2.) The pec tear doesn't seem to be bothering me at all. I don't bench anymore ( never cared much for it anyway) and I have PRed my press. It's feeling better than ever.

    3.) The Starr model was recommended to me from our very strong friends over at Westminster S&C. The idea being that I didn't think that I could recover from the 5x5 sets across and modern day HLM is pretty much TM, considering if you incorporate the five sets across theme. Yes, Starr 5x5 utilizes ascending sets of 5 for all theee training days, with the intensity broke up between heavy, medium, and light. Their idea is that it allows the trainee to sneak in volume, considering that recovery is compromised.

    But you know, maybe you are right. Maybe I can recover from more volume.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BGish1984 View Post
    1.)The final week of my first cycle I did 355x5x5 on volume day, 1RM of 445 on intensity day. The very next week I reset my volume day to 325x5x5 and 360x5. My PR for a 5 Rm at the time was 385.

    2.) The pec tear doesn't seem to be bothering me at all. I don't bench anymore ( never cared much for it anyway) and I have PRed my press. It's feeling better than ever.

    3.) The Starr model was recommended to me from our very strong friends over at Westminster S&C. The idea being that I didn't think that I could recover from the 5x5 sets across and modern day HLM is pretty much TM, considering if you incorporate the five sets across theme. Yes, Starr 5x5 utilizes ascending sets of 5 for all theee training days, with the intensity broke up between heavy, medium, and light. Their idea is that it allows the trainee to sneak in volume, considering that recovery is compromised.

    But you know, maybe you are right. Maybe I can recover from more volume.
    I wouldn't say that HLM is basically TM. If we're talking about the generic TM template of volume/light/intensity day. Cramming all the volume into one day might be hard to recover from, but spreading it over three days probably isn't so bad.

    Say you did Starr [135, 225, 275, 310, 330] x 5, that's 6,400 pounds of volume at wildly varying intensities. Let's say 330x5 was your 5RM and 385 was your e1RM, you could probably handle taking 75% of that for 5x5, or 290x5x5, which is 7,250 pounds of volume. That's more volume at a pretty manageable intensity, but an intensity high enough to drive an adaptation, whereas doing sets below 60% probably isn't doing much for you besides warming up.

    With the ascending/ramping sets of 5, your first two working sets of 5 don't even break the 60% mark of your estimated 1RM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marcf View Post
    I wouldn't say that HLM is basically TM. If we're talking about the generic TM template of volume/light/intensity day. Cramming all the volume into one day might be hard to recover from, but spreading it over three days probably isn't so bad.

    Say you did Starr [135, 225, 275, 310, 330] x 5, that's 6,400 pounds of volume at wildly varying intensities. Let's say 330x5 was your 5RM and 385 was your e1RM, you could probably handle taking 75% of that for 5x5, or 290x5x5, which is 7,250 pounds of volume. That's more volume at a pretty manageable intensity.

    With the ascending/ramping sets of 5, your first two working sets of 5 don't even break the 60% mark of your estimated 1RM.

    ive been arguing with somebody about this obvious fact most of the day and they wont budge...good post

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    Quote Originally Posted by Murelli View Post
    Why don't you try the following on HLM:

    Heavy day is intensity day (5RM or 2x3 or 5x1) followed by the first two sets of your 5x5 (around 90% of your first set). Light day is light day. Medium is the next three sets of your 5x5 (same weight as Heavy day backoff sets).
    I think that's what I would try in OP's shoes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Larousse View Post
    ive been arguing with somebody about this obvious fact most of the day and they wont budge...good post
    I hope it wasn't someone at your gym. Arguing with gym acquaintances is the worst.

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