Swap Barbell Squat Jumps for Trap Bar Jumps (or DB Jumps) to maximize power

[jwagner]

If I were to look into training genetics, I think jumping would be further down the list.

[MBasic]

Why not just do power cleans?

funny, direct quote in the article linked in the 1st post:

3. Train with exercises that maximize power
Sprint, jump, cut, throw and Olympic lift, because these produce high amounts of power.

[jtuura]

Do you even read the study you cited in "principle 2"?

Write about the data in that study next.

Did you notice that "rate of force development" got worse with the "mechanical power" group when measured halfway through the study...and then after that round of measurement, the authors decided to throw that category away "'cause someone got injured".

Did you notice that the two categories with pvalue <.05 in support of the hypothesis had incredibly suspect data? Like so bad I can't believe this shit got published.

The weight training protocol was 3 sets of 6-10 reps, each set at RPE10, with a fixed 3-minute interset rest. 2x/week. Could this merely be a study about "ballistic movement performance in fatigued states"?

Thanks for the feedback, man. I think the data was telling about specificity of training, in that power builds power (I think it gets messy when we look at different level of athletes because power might not build power if they have no strength, but you already know this).

I wasn't surprised that it decreased RFD, but I wouldn't put someone on this type of program with pure power training the way they did. Athletes need to train a variety of force vectors and at different levels of forces and velocities.

According to the Strength and Conditioning Journal, "The current literature indicates the load that maximizes power output in a specific movement is the optimal training load to elicit improvements in maximal power output. This optimal load provides a stimulus that results in the greatest improvement in maximal power output due to velocity specific increases in neural drive."

Also there's this study, although I only have access to the abstract (so it doesn't mean much): Short-Term Performance Effects of High Power, High Force, or Combined Weight-Training Methods

Curious to hear your thoughts.

[jtuura]

funny, direct quote in the article linked in the 1st post:

Depends on the athlete. Some could have shifted their force-velocity curve so far to the force side that they produce more power with heavier movements like Oly lifts than they do with unweighted movements like sprinting, cutting, and jumping.

[Satch12879]

Depends on the athlete. Some could have shifted their force-velocity curve so far to the force side that they produce more power with heavier movements like Oly lifts than they do with unweighted movements like sprinting, cutting, and jumping.

If power equals force times distance divided by time, wouldn't an increase in force production automatically produce an increase in power?

[jtuura]

If power equals force times distance divided by time, wouldn't an increase in force production automatically produce an increase in power?

Not necessarily. If this were the case, Powerlifters would be the most powerful athletes (they're not). For explosive (powerful) movements, you need to produce force at higher velocities. A maximal squat produces a ton of force, but the velocity is so low that it decreases power.

Powerlifting is a misnomer. It should be Forcelifting.

Does this make sense?

[shib]

Not necessarily. If this were the case, Powerlifters would be the most powerful athletes (they're not). For explosive (powerful) movements, you need to produce force at higher velocities. A maximal squat produces a ton of force, but the velocity is so low that it decreases power.

You missed the point. Satch is saying that if force production goes up then power increases as well within the scope of the same lift.

Since power = force x (distance/time) if you increase the amount of force produced in a clean (by say adding weight to the bar) then power as a whole HAS to go up. If you decide to manipulate the distance or time variables we're no longer talking about the same lift.

Satch is correct, it's strange that this has to be explained to you.

Powerlifting is a misnomer. It should be Forcelifting.

Does this make sense?

It makes so much sense that am absolutely shocked and appalled that nobody in the history of the sport has thought of this. Never, none.

[John Hanley]

Not necessarily. If this were the case, Powerlifters would be the most powerful athletes (they're not). For explosive (powerful) movements, you need to produce force at higher velocities. A maximal squat produces a ton of force, but the velocity is so low that it decreases power.

Powerlifting is a misnomer. It should be Forcelifting.

Does this make sense?

Satch is talking about improving power output of an individual subject; you're talking about classes of subjects.

Or put really simply: "I'd much rather have to make a weak, fast kid strong, than a strong, slow kid fast". The latter won't happen. Ever. Fmax and proficiency in the sport-specific motor pattern are key variables. Screaming recruitment rates are gifts of the genetic lottery.

The idea of training "power output" using "proxy sport-specific movements loaded at max mech. power in a gym" is voodoo. Show me the studies. Show me the literature.

[marcf]

funny, direct quote in the article linked in the 1st post:

Right, but I'm saying why not just keep it to that? Why do trap bar jumps?

[marcf]

Jumping exercises won't increase one's vertical leap or explosiveness? Amazing. I'll write about that next.

It is amazing, isn't it? Once you understand this, and why it's true, please do go on and write about it.