starting strength gym
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 15

Thread: Please evaluate my intermediate program

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    90

    Default Please evaluate my intermediate program

    • starting strength seminar april 2024
    • starting strength seminar jume 2024
    • starting strength seminar august 2024
    Finished SS last week. Time to move on.

    Format: sets x reps

    Monday
    Overhead press: 5x5 @ 80% of Friday
    Deadlift: 5x5 @ 80% of Friday
    Pull ups: 4 sets with bodyweight

    Wednesday
    Squat: 5x5 @ 80% of Friday
    Bench press: 5x5 @ 80% of Friday
    Dips: 4 sets with bodyweight

    Friday
    Squat: 2x3 / 3x2 / 5x1
    Overhead press: 2x3 / 3x2 / 5x1
    Bench press: 2x3 / 3x2 / 5x1
    Deadlift: 2x3 / 3x2 / 5x1

    This is basically two volume days and an intensity day. The motive for this was to get proper volume for both the press and the bench press at the same time.

    It may look like a lot of stress, but volume days are kept in control by always staying relative to the intensity day i.e. my max or close to max capability. Intensity day will rotate between different rep schemes weekly but only after 2x3 starts getting too tough for the first time, which might be weeks, or it might be months. Based on some charts, this means that the volume days will end up being around 72% when doing 2x3, 75% when doing 3x2 and 78% when doing 5x1, ensuring that the weight will always be stressful enough but never close to where you risk missing reps.

    Anyone tried a similar thing? Do you think this would be glaringly too much stress, or do you think this could be made to work for a 25-year-old student? Modifications/additions etc?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    5,557

    Default

    * Maybe couple dips with press instead of bench?
    * Pullups right after deadlifts are gonna suck, they both hit grip and lats hard.
    * Two days between 5x5 squats and intensity squats is pretty short.

    What are your goals here? TM is often used as a peaking program for strength athletes. Your emphasis on press and addition of dips makes me think you maybe aren't prepping for a powerlifting meet.

    If you are just trying to get stronger and look good naked (dips and chins baby!), I'm not sure a program designed around frequently testing your 3/2/1RM is ideal.

    Maybe consider an HLM or 4-day HL split program? They are easier to fit some "bro work" into.

    Example is my current split:
    Su: H squat, L dead
    Mo: H bench, chins, L press
    Th: H dead, L squat
    Fr: H press, chins, dips

    Here, "heavy" is like TM "volume" and "light" is also volume, but not quite as heavy.

    This is no good for peaking, because there's no day where you set rep maxes. You stop all sets 1-2 reps short of failure and trust that your maxes are going up. I.e. it's an "accumulation" or "hypertrophy" program. Which is my goal.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    27

    Default

    I agree with what cwd is saying. It would be nice to know what you want out of your program. (general strength, competition, physique?)

    What you present as a program seems to be look like, to me at least, a broken texas/HLM combo. If you want general strength or physique, I would go for an HLM approach.

    Maybe try something like this:
    Monday:
    Squat 5x5 @90%
    Bench 1x1-5, 3x5 @90-95%
    Deadlift 2x5 @90% (or 3x5 deadlift variation)

    Wednesday:
    Squats 3x5 @80%
    Press 1x1-5, 3x5 @90-95%
    Chins or Pull ups 3-4 sets

    Friday:
    Squat 1x5/2x3/5x1
    Bench press/press variation for 3-4x5 or 3-4x8
    Deadlift 1x5/2x3/5x1

    I do something similar to this. It's basically a texas/HLM combo that spread loads the stress more nicely.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    1,301

    Default

    Not a coach, but my 2c.

    I'd move pull ups from Mon to Wed, and Squat from Wed to Mon. Pull ups after DL is basically pointless. If you are going to squat twice a week, I'd rather it be Mon/Fri then Wed/Fri. Recovering from 5x5 and Wed and trying to perform an ID PR on Fri is wishful thinking.
    I'd drop DL from 5x5 to 3x5. I don't think 5x5 is impossible to do, but this is something vast majority can't do and recover from. 3x5 should work fine as an intermediate and provides enough volume.
    I'd do the ID for either SQ or DL on Mon, and the other on Fri. I found doing SQ + DL on the same day is fine, as long as both aren't VD.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    90

    Default

    Thanks for all the feedback.

    My goal isn't to compete in the foreseeable future, just "powerbuilding" for now. Based on my experience prior to doing SS, pure volume work gets boring to me very quick. Need to have something in the 80+% of 1RM range and hence the intensity days, though they will eventually be more like 90-95%. I'm probably around 60:40 in terms of my interest between strength and hypertrophy despite not competing. It's impossible not to be interested in hypertrophy, but the numbers going up is what really keeps me going on a daily (or now I suppose weekly) basis.

    The plan is to do this for 3 months and then switch on to a cut with some kind of an HLM template which will be much less stressful.

    I completely agree with switching pull ups and dips, don't know what I was really thinking there. Also, rather than moving ID squats to Monday, what about moving ID squats and bench onto Saturday? I started thinking that not only would 48 hours of rest between VD and ID squats be a problem like everyone said, but eventually doing 5 sets of 1 on all four lifts with optimal rest periods during the same session might result in over 2 hour workouts when combined with warm ups for each lift. It would then look like this:

    Monday
    Overhead press: 5x5 @ 80% of Friday
    Deadlift: 5x5 @ 80% of Friday
    Dips: 4 sets with bodyweight

    Wednesday
    Squat: 5x5 @ 80% of Saturday
    Bench press: 5x5 @ 80% of Saturday
    Pull ups: 4 sets with bodyweight

    Friday
    Overhead press: 2x3 / 3x2 / 5x1
    Deadlift: 2x3 / 3x2 / 5x1
    Fluff lift slot 1

    Saturday
    Squat: 2x3 / 3x2 / 5x1
    Bench press: 2x3 / 3x2 / 5x1
    Fluff lift slot 2

    The volume and time taken of both Fri and Sat workouts are low this way, so I thought this setup might make it sensible to include kind of a light accessory on both days? I kind of want to keep volume work and intensity work for the big lifts on separate days, and I like full body workouts more than U/L, hence trying to keep this template. If you still think there are issues though, please let me know.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    90

    Default

    Forgot to mention: I chose 5x5 deadlifts because there is noticeably less squatting volume than on SS (need a break from 3 times a week squats). If the deads turn out to kill me, I'll consider 3x5 however.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    5,557

    Default

    Your 4-day program looks a lot better to me.

    5x5 deadlifts at 80% of 3rm (i.e. 70% of 1rm) would crush me. But you are much younger, maybe it will work. It will be quite time consuming, if you rest 5+ minutes between sets.

    I'm doing my deadlift volume as a "density block" these days, which is fairly time-efficient:

    With the same weight I use for a conservative 8-rep set (about 75% of 1rm), set a timer for 5 minutes and do as many non-grindy, good-form reps as possible.
    This works out to be little sets of 5, 3, 2, 2, etc. with <60s rests, total about 15 reps.

    I'm doing this 2x/week, and on one day also a heavy set of 3, 5, or 8. It's working pretty well for me.

    My original plan was about 20 reps in 7 minutes, but this was too much volume for me. I had to reduce it.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    RS WY
    Posts
    980

    Default

    If you are interested in powerbuilding check out Andy Baker’s split.

    Another option (alternate V/I):

    M - I press, V deadlift, assistance
    W - I squat, V bench, assistance
    F - I deadlift, V press, assistance
    S - I bench, V squat, assistance

    Even though you said you prefer full body you should consider an U/L split:

    M - I bench, V press, assistance
    W - I squat, V deadlift, assistance
    F - I press, V bench, assistance
    S - I deadlift, V squat, assistance

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    605

    Default

    I'd start with a good routine that fits your goals, such as one from Andy Baker or the Barbell Medicine crew, and then adjust it over time as needed.

    No need to reinvent the wheel.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    5,557

    Default

    starting strength coach development program
    Quote Originally Posted by quikky View Post
    I'd start with a good routine that fits your goals, such as one from Andy Baker or the Barbell Medicine crew, and then adjust it over time as needed.

    No need to reinvent the wheel.
    Yep, this is what worked for me. HLM and HL 4-day split, with a small change no more often than every 3 weeks, is what I've been doing for many months.

    Entirely novel and experimental programs are fun to design, but it's probably wiser to find a tried-and-true one that works for you as a baseline.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •