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Thread: Box squats

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorenzo View Post
    This doesn't make sense to me. To be the best of my understanding, you get stronger by adapting to an increased stress, if it's easier to recover then it wasn't as stressful and is not making you as stronger.
    I think the issue is balancing other fitness priorities. Meaning you can box squat heavy while doing other physically demanding tasks with fewer detrimental effects than a standard squat. You would still increase the stress by adding weight to the bar.

    I'm pretty sure I've read both Andy Baker and Jim Wendler comment that box squats are easier to recover from; Andy doesn't recommend them because they aren't as helpful for raw lifters and Wendler just got burned out from doing them at Westside.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by atw_abn View Post
    That was my thoughts as well. I tried some last week and I thought they were OK. Definitely hard coming out of the hole.

    I always kind of shy away from arguments like this, but I wonder how important harnessing the stretch reflex is for people who don't participate in powerlifting/weightlifting. I think to Rip's point you can use more weight through the same ROM by using the stretch reflex and therefore you should get stronger with squats vs box squats. However, you can also use more weight through the same ROM if you use a squat suit. You can also deadlift more if use bumpers and bounce your reps. I know these are not apples to apples comparisons, but it has been an interesting thought process for me lately. My friends with whom I've been having this discussion are all SOF operators and would say that nothing they do in their jobs resembles utilizing the stretch reflex the way that one would in a squat. They also say that box squatting still gets them strong and is easier to recover from for their other fitness training. Again, something to chew on.
    I think box squats more specifically develop starting strength: not the brand, but actual starting strength. They have their place, I think in both developing explosiveness for athletes and for assistance with the parent lift. As an analogy, I had never used dead stop pin bench presses but my bench has been mired for a while. I added pin-bench presses a few weeks ago to substitute for my "heavy" bench day. To compensate, I worked up to a heavy triple as my first volume set, then backed off to regular volume day (minus 1 set). I was 100% skeptical about using the dead stops because I was repping around 75% of my 1rm for single or doubles. Within 3 weeks, my bench 3 rep max was at where my 1 rep max was stuck at. I'm not sure if the increase was from the dead bench itself or from the fact that I am 47 and using less weight allowed for a de facto deload. I'm now going to tinker with substituting one press day with pin presses.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorenzo View Post
    This doesn't make sense to me. To be the best of my understanding, you get stronger by adapting to an increased stress, if it's easier to recover then it wasn't as stressful and is not making you as stronger.
    I disagree. Bodybuilding routines with high rep, high volume, medium intensity and lots of slow tempo reps can be really, really hard to recover from. Yet, this is not the optimal training modality for getting strong. Doing 3 drop sets to failure of 20 reps each in bench press, followed by some drop sets in weighted lunges is a 5 day lesson in nearly crippling DOMS....or so I've heard..haha.

  4. #14
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    Fair enough, just goes to show how logic doesn't help much when you still don't know much of it, I'll have a search to see what I can come up with, cheers mate.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by atw_abn View Post
    I didn't say that, and I don't think they would say that either.
    They kinda did.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satch12879 View Post
    They kinda did.
    I (since I can't speak for them) would assume they would say that utilizing the stretch reflex isn't essential for getting the benefits of squatting. I don't know if that is a true statement or not; they are strong dudes who seem to be doing something right.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by atw_abn View Post
    I don't know if that is a true statement or not; they are strong dudes who seem to be doing something right.
    Name the logic error for a free T-shirt.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    Name the logic error for a free T-shirt.
    Appeal to experience/authority.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    Name the logic error for a free T-shirt.
    I did preface my statement with saying I didn't know if their thoughts were correct. And I stand by my statement in that if I see someone box squat 450/deadlift 600+ they are doing "something" right.

  10. #20
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    Rip's getting at an oft-repeated mistake people make with regard to understanding the performance of very strong individuals and how they got that way. The question you have to ask yourself is, "are they strong because of or in spite of whatever thing they are doing?" In other words, did the box squats make them strong or were they strong guys that were doing box squats? One is definitely true, the other not necessarily so. It's a study in phenomenology.

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