The statistical improbability of no champions The statistical improbability of no champions

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Thread: The statistical improbability of no champions

  1. #1
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    Default The statistical improbability of no champions

    • wichita falls texas december seminar 2020
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    I was listening to a podcast recently where the host was talking about the strength of gorillas and they said “we will never know how strong a gorilla really could be as they have never ran starting strength”.

    While humorous in nature it got me to thinking for people that are objectively strong (e.g world champs, top tier lifters) NONE of them use starting strength based programming, or for that matter starting strength coaches’ programming. I don’t see how this could be statistically possible. Starting strength is the best selling strength training book of all time. The organization says that the programming works for everyone who tries it and has a rather large community and following, so you would think there would be some instances of some insane lifters here.

    Any thoughts on why this is?

  2. #2
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    The novice linear progression is most likely not an appropriate program for lifters at that level.

    Additionally, what does "Starting Strength" style programming mean?


    Also, you're very wrong. Joseph Peña is an IPF world champion.

    pena on Instagram: “Took a week off of back squatting and feels like it paid off! 832x1 760 3x5 Everything felt super easy today and I'm really excited…”

    Rori Alter is an SSC who recently completed at The Arnold.

    Dan Green has been on record that he uses HLM linear programming when coming back after a meet.

    There was a USAPL national championship bench presser who was using Texas Method at the time of his win.

    Please remember, Starting Strength is not a powerlifting program.

  3. #3
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    I guess we could be more crisp in defining Starting Strength style intermediate programing. I am obviously not referring to SSNLP.

    Broadly, any programming done under a starting strength coach or unmodified programs as described in PPST.

    I mean you sort of prove my point with the examples you give.

    Joseph Pena tags Jordan & Austin in that post and was coached by Austin Barkai at one time. (Not an SSC).
    Rori is an RTS athlete and coached by Mike Tuscherer (Not an SSC)
    I don't know where you got Dan Green from. I cannot find any record of him saying that. Please link. I looked at his training on instagram after his meet and most recent injury it did not resemble HLM (not 1 5x5 in the last year on his page).
    Who is this bench presser?

    The three examples you gave have all chosen programming outside of the org. Why is this?

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    Joseph also tagged Starting Strength in that post. I don't know who does is coaching and programming now.

    The problem is that you have not carefully read PPST. Intermediate programming become more and more individualized. The templates and frameworks in Practical Programming are meant to be modified. There is also an expectation that individual cases for a novice lifter would require considerations outside of the "as written".

    Dan Green mentioned it in a video on YouTube. I would find it for you, but I don't care enough.

    I don't know if Rori is still coached by Mike, but even if she is, it doesn't matter. She's still an SSC and a damn excellent lifter and coach.

    The bench presser is a local kid. I did his programming. It was simple Texas Method. I am not an SSC.

    Regardless, the level of lifter you are thinking of is probably beyond novice and intermediate programming. At that level, the programming and coaching become more and more individualized. There are no "Template 2.0" options at that level. If you had read Practical Programming, you would know this.

    The coaching choices of top level powerlifters is not the concern of SSCs really. Different demographic and market.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diddyin94 View Post
    Broadly, any programming done under a starting strength coach or unmodified programs as described in PPST.
    Unmodified PPST? I'm not sure what that's supposed to mean. PPST gives frameworks to build programs around and gives examples of how it's done. You'll notice on the Andy Baker blog, his Texas method isn't 1x5 on intensity. It's generally 2x3. Matt Reynolds gives multiple other examples in the Barbell Logic podcast. There's no less than 25367 variations on HLM on the Andy Baker YouTube channel, plus he sells 2 additional templates. None of them use the rep/set scheme's of the book, yet are 100% in line with the book.

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    Diddy's point is that if our methods were really as good as we say they are, the best lifters in the world would be using them. Since they are obviously not, he wins. Fine with me.

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    You can get to a very high level using the principals from PPST/BBP and it is pretty simple to use programming that suffices most peoples need for more strength throughout the course of the lifters life. If you reach an Elite stage which is pretty much fairy tale land you will have gained the knowledge and advice from elite coaches in the field of strength to perform at an Elite level and stlil get better. If you know of a faster more practical way to gain strength than the simple step wise manner of just going in the gym and doing the work please tell. Ive seen all kinds of programming and programming that I have paid for by elite powerlifting coaches that arent any faster the the programs in PPST/TBBP FWII

    A common grip among former SS community members and coaches is that dogma and tradition are held on too much here rather than getting up to speed with more modern approaches.

    My opinion is we are blessed with the knowledge of practical programming for practical situations that will allow us to get very strong for a long time in a practical simple stepwise manner. The coaches here are qualified to help you along your strength journey with aasgard programming models if you cant figure it out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeJ View Post

    The problem is that you have not carefully read PPST. Intermediate programming become more and more individualized. The templates and frameworks in Practical Programming are meant to be modified. There is also an expectation that individual cases for a novice lifter would require considerations outside of the "as written".
    So Texas method doesn't work?

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeJ View Post
    Dan Green mentioned it in a video on YouTube. I would find it for you, but I don't care enough.
    Got it.

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeJ View Post
    I don't know if Rori is still coached by Mike, but even if she is, it doesn't matter. She's still an SSC and a damn excellent lifter and coach.
    uhh..It does matter. It's the entire point of the post.

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeJ View Post
    The bench presser is a local kid. I did his programming. It was simple Texas Method. I am not an SSC.
    So Texas method does work? Which is it?

    Also, I really don't believe this happened at all. Post the age of the lifter and meet results. Why would half of his overhead movements be dedicated to overhead press (you know not the competition lift) if he was training to win a bench press meet?

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeJ View Post
    The coaching choices of top level powerlifters is not the concern of SSCs really. Different demographic and market.
    So why make a powerlifting federation?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    Diddy's point is that if our methods were really as good as we say they are, the best lifters in the world would be using them. Since they are obviously not, he wins. Fine with me.
    Actually no that is not my point at all. I would have no expectation that any top level lifter would ever switch their program/framework.

    My thought is, if you have 10,000 (probably more) people running an LP every year for the last 8 years. Wouldn't eventually some of those people who follow the intermediate pipeline eventually become top level lifters. I am concerned about the progression of people through the Starting Strength framework and pipeline not the decisions of people once they are elite.

  10. #10
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    starting strength coach development program
    Quote Originally Posted by Diddyin94 View Post
    So Texas method doesn't work?



    Got it.



    uhh..It does matter. It's the entire point of the post.



    So Texas method does work? Which is it?

    Also, I really don't believe this happened at all. Post the age of the lifter and meet results. Why would half of his overhead movements be dedicated to overhead press (you know not the competition lift) if he was training to win a bench press meet?



    So why make a powerlifting federation?
    Modifications to Texas Method to fit the individual lifter and their goalsbis not proof that Texas Method doesn't work, it's proof that the concepts detailed in Practical Programming do work. If the concepts of program individualization do not make sense to you, I'm sorry.

    If I tell you the kid's name and the meet he won the national title at, you are going to scour his social media looking for hashtags and mentions of his program and coach and Starting Strength. You won't find that because he didn't do that. He was programmed to only press on light day and did bench press for volume day and intensity day. His volume day was programmed independently of his intensity say. His intensity day rep ranges were cycled. Nothing sexy about it. Pretty much as detailed in Practical Programming.

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