Programming post novice

[Sean Plant]

I’ll be starting a new program in a few weeks after I milk everything I can from LP and was going to do the Texas Method. However, considering I’ve added 20-25kg and 30-40kg on the press and bench press compared to 70kg and 90kg on the squat and deadlift respectively, I feel I may benefit from more exposure to the upper body lifts.

What do you think to this training template:

Mon:
Bench 1x5/2x3/3x2/5x1
Press 5x5
Chins 3xfailure

Tues:
Squat 5x5
Bench 3x5 or bench assistance
Deadlift 1x5

Thurs:
Press 1x5/2x3/3x2/5x1
Bench 5x5
Chins 3xfailure or 3x5 weighted

Fri:
Squat 1x5/2x3/3x2/5x1 (2x5 back off)
Press 3x5 or press assistance
Power clean 5x3

(Using same principles as Texas Method, adding weight weekly)

[Ivan Stepic]

Try it. I'd do press and bench assistance instead of 3x5's.

[MAD9692]

Why not just follow one of the Intermediate programs in PPT3? Andy lays out multiple options in detail.

[Sean Plant]

Like I said, my upper body lifts havent responded to the novice program like the squat and deadlift have.

All the intermediate programs have the bench and press trained once or twice a week, like the novice program.

[Rob Waskis]

Try it. I'd do press and bench assistance instead of 3x5's.

I agree. Maybe dumbbell work for higher reps with a pause at the bottom. Flat bench one day and high incline the other.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Like I said, my upper body lifts havent responded to the novice program like the squat and deadlift have.

All the intermediate programs have the bench and press trained once or twice a week, like the novice program.

How is it possible that you have missed the part about not all the lifts going intermediate at the same time?

[Sean Plant]

I haven’t. All my lifts have practically stalled on workout to workout increases. So I’m therefore essentially an intermediate or very late novice.

My point is my upper body lifts have increased at about a third of the rate my squat and deadlift have. So continuing with the same press/bench frequency seems pointless if that rate of increase relative to squat and deadlift increases carries on. I mean, it’d be nice to have a press and bench to go with my squat and deadlift.

Other people may have a different experience, but mine has been that squat and deadlift gains by far exceed press and bench gains when on the novice program. Only going by my personal experience.

[Adam Gottstein]

For what it's worth, you should expect your absolute weight increases on bench and press to be lower than deadlift and squat. You haven't provided enough evidence to support that your press and bench increases compared to squat and deadlift increases aren't in line with where they should be. Starting weight and ending weight on all of the lifts, as well as how long you've been doing NLP, would help more than rough amount increased with no other context.

Relative to your proposed program, what stands out is lack of deadlift (1x/wk + power cleans), a light squat day would probably be of value (maybe Thurs for 2 sets of 5 @ 80% Monday), and bench on Tuesday may be impacted by Monday's intensity bench. Overall volume seems pretty high, too.

[Mark Rippetoe]

I haven’t. All my lifts have practically stalled on workout to workout increases. So I’m therefore essentially an intermediate or very late novice.

My point is my upper body lifts have increased at about a third of the rate my squat and deadlift have. So continuing with the same press/bench frequency seems pointless if that rate of increase relative to squat and deadlift increases carries on. I mean, it’d be nice to have a press and bench to go with my squat and deadlift.

Other people may have a different experience, but mine has been that squat and deadlift gains by far exceed press and bench gains when on the novice program. Only going by my personal experience.

Think about what you're asking us: essentially, is there a faster way to make progress on a lift than adding weight to the lift 3x/week?

[Sean Plant]

Think about what you're asking us: essentially, is there a faster way to make progress on a lift than adding weight to the lift 3x/week?

Fair point. Perhaps I’m just overreacting. All I’m suggesting is my progress on the upper body lifts has been pretty insignificant compared to the squat and deadlift.

5 months on the novice program has resulted in:
Squat from 70kgx5x3 to 155kgx5
Deadlift from 90kgx5 to 180kgx5
Press 40kgx5x3 to 66.75kgx3
Bench 62.5kgx5x3 to 101.25kg for 3s
Body weight: 78kg to 93kg

From my view it looks like bench & press progress hasn’t been anywhere near as significant as the squat and deadlift. Or is this what is normally expected in the novice program?